Hey guys, pretty new to zwift here (got it last week and already a level 10), and have some questions about training (though I don’t know if I’m allowed to post this here…).
My first question is about my FTP. I did the FTP test in Zwift (not the lite version) and somehow got 175w. When I tried to do a workout on zwift, I noticed that even under FTP, I was dying and my legs were starting to burn. On a different day, I tried doing a 1 hour full effort and got 135w, where as my zFTP is 146w…I’m assuming that my actual FTP is around 140 or so?
My second question has to do with training .I’ve heard from many sources (including GCN) that the quickest way to get faster on the bike and raise my FTP is just to ride more (Zone 2).
At the moment, I was able to complete the ADZ (albeit slowly at a little less than 3 hours), and was able to do 40 miles in about 3 hours on a somewhat hilly route.
Should I just keep doing long zone 2 rides and keep increasing the distance? Should I be doing threshold rides @ or near FTP? Or some high intensity workouts?
FTP should be what you can sustain for an hour but nobody is going to be liekly to sustain FTP for an our untrained, zFTP is zwifts attempt as a Critical Power measurement, dont get these two values confused as they are based on vastly different values, we did tell zwift it would confuse people but they didnt listen..zone 2 will build up the endurance
I would ignore zFTP since it’s not a reliable FTP measurement (might be OK or not). If the FTP test you did was a ramp test, that can over-estimate FTP in relatively untrained athletes so depending on your cycling fitness, that might be high. Doing a one hour full effort is difficult to pace, so if you faded in that effort, you might find that you can get a better result by simply doing it again (after suitable recovery) because you can pace it smarter next time. The standard 20 minute FTP test may be a better measure, but unlike a ramp test you are once again expected to figure out appropriate pacing so it’s not unusual to require a few tries to learn how to pace it.
Riding more zone 2 efforts is great training but depends on having available time. There’s no single answer to how to get faster. If you have time for more moderate-paced rides that is not a bad way to go. What else you do depends on what you’re training for. Are you just looking for a bigger FTP number, or is there some kind of riding or event that you want to get better at? If there’s an event then planning training around the event date is important, and so is the terrain you expect to ride on.
I have as much time as I need to be honest, I could ride 3 hours a day everyday if my knees (and butt) can handle it.
My goal is to burn more calories, which means I need to put out more watts for longer - don’t care about sprinting or anything else, just more watts for longer to burn more calories essentially
I guess I’ll have to try the 20 minute test, but I know it’ll be killer…
If you aspire to lose weight, longer zone 2 rides are good for that, but how you eat is far more important. If you have an event you are preparing for, I would also try to avoid targeting weight loss as a goal when you get closer to the event, so that’s a good thing to focus on when you have some months between you and whatever you’re preparing to do. If you don’t have specific event goals then it matters a lot less since you can do whatever you want any time.
With the kind of time you have available, personally I would be looking at zone 2 volume, but you still have to answer the question (for yourself, not for me) about whether you just want to be a steady power kind of rider or if you want to get better at shorter efforts as well. It’s one thing to do well at an FTP test which is more or less a flat time trial, but it’s different if you need to fight to stay with a group that is surging on hills, or sprinting.
The issue is not so much losing weight as I want the opportunity to eat anything I want and not worry about my weight (one guy I know rides 3 hours every day and burns 2800 calories according to zwift)…I’d like that but I’m a long way from that.
I’d probably like to race at some point, but I need to increase my w/kg. Easiest way for that is to lose weight obviously. I’d probably just like to be super steady decent w/kg rider, not worried about sprints and stuff like that.
So it seems your consensus is just doing a bunch of zone 2?
Before you do the standard 20 minute ftp test make sure you reset your FTP on your in game profile. I would suggest you lower it to 155 or 150, I’m assuming it is currently set at 175 as a result of your ramp test. In your first workout after ramp test you had to reduce your bias by just over 10% to complete the last two intervals (of 3 intervals) and 155 looks about right. If you don’t reduce it some of the early warm up intervals will be too hard on ftp test.
When doing your 20 minute ftp test interval aim for average of around 162-165 watts for first 12-15 minutes and then decide if you can start to raise your effort by a few more watts. ( your FTP will be 95% of your average 20 minute effort so hopefully at or over 155w)
Just to set a bit of expectations: To do that you would need to average about 260W for that 3 hour period. Most people cannot do that even after years of training - and even fewer (much fewer) could do 260W for 3 hours without taking in substantial calories while on the bike.
If you get to the point where you can hold 135W for 3 hours that will be about 1400 calories for that time. Also, keep in mind that if you are going for 3 hours you might want to fuel during the ride, so if you’re taking in any calories you need to subtract that from your calorie goals etc. It might be that unless you can do this and even longer every day you still might not be able to eat everything you’d like etc.
I would build up the zone 2 hours and then I would start adding in high intensity work that matches the demands of racing that I want to do well at - the terrain and duration and how it finishes. I would also not do exclusively zone 2 riding since some above-FTP intervals will improve FTP as well, and endless zone 2 is too boring for me to keep at it indefinitely, but a relatively untrained person will get a lot out of it over the course of a couple months.
Also if you really have 15 hours a week to train, consider if you can afford a coach and if that is worth it to you. I’m sure you would learn a lot from it even if you don’t stay with a coach for a super long time. Another alternative is using one of the adaptive training apps that let you define your goals and and time let it propose what to do. That is cheaper than a coach, but comes with less advice.
You can see my workout and how much I had to lower the bias? That’s cool! Yeah, I finished the first intervals and just died, legs were burning before I even finished it, so I started lowering it.
I’ll probably do a 20 minute ftp test in a few days, and I’ll aim for those numbers that you suggested.
So far, I haven’t really been fueling on the bike for those long rides. I know that the chances of me ever being able to put down 4w/kg for 3 hours is almost slim to none, and that my expectations are insane. Even that 1400 calories for one ride sounds great. I’m a huge fan of the motto: ride fast eat trash. I love eating trash.
I really have as much time a week as I want, as I don’t work (just a product of the situation I’m in, im lucky), so my only limitations are my endurance and the pain resistance of my gluteus maximus.
Unfortunately, I don’t have money for a coach, though I guess I could try trainer road (this is what you’re talking about, right?). Is it worth doing, for example, FTP builder, or would my goals be better served by doing a different Zwift training plan?
Luckily for me, zone 2 isn’t boring - I usually ride while chatting in twitchchat with people on zwift, so I stay pretty entertained. Maybe I could do mostly zone 2 but whenever I get to a KOM or sprint or things like that, I could use it as an interval?
TrainerRoad, JOIN.cc, Xert are all examples of adaptive training apps. Some of them have free trials as well. The full list is here: Zwift and Third-party Platforms
Look for the ones that have a check in the column that says Workouts Sent Automatically to Zwift, then look for reviews or YouTube videos about those products, or do a free trial and see what you think.
FTP Builder and Build Me Up are both popular plans on Zwift if you want a canned plan that leaves you to figure out some stuff on your own (like should I work out or rest on a given day).
I generally approach zone 2 rides by staying mostly in zone 2 heart rate, and if I want to go harder, I do that at the end. If I don’t feel like doing a zone 2 ride then I do something else so it stays fun, like social group rides, races, the big Zwift tour events like Unlocked. A more disciplined person would probably do a structured workout instead of a fun ride, but then it would not be fun.
Gotcha, yeah well definitely you burn more calories at higher intensities per minute, but its hard to sustain super high loads over long periods of time without burning out in the workout itself, and then incurring fatigue that can reduce the efforts you can do (and thus calories you can burn) on subsequent days. For longer workouts you probably can’t be much over Zone 2 for 3 hours without fueling in some way shape or form or you’ll probably see your power drop down later in the workout, so increasing your time in Zone 2 is probably a good thing for you in general.
I think if I had all the time you have I would probably spend some quality time building up zone 2 time over the course of a few 3 week blocks, maybe take every 4th week a bit less volume (as a “semi-rest” week), and I would probably sprinkle in one intense interval session per week after the first block to mix things up. After a while I’d probably go to 2 intense interval sessions per week depending on how things are going, how much time I have, if I’ve maxed out on the amount of volume I’m willing to do etc.
Building time in zone 2 also gets your body used to being on the bike for longer, keeps you pedaling for much longer without building up too much fatigue for the next day, and does set you up for doing more intense riding later if that’s something you’re interested in.
I’ll keep doing zone 2 for now. I’m working out (or riding at least 1 hour) every day, taking some super easy days when my legs are hurting.
I’ll probably do as recommended by you guys and throw in 1-2 interval workouts per week (I guess this is the golden 80/20 rule).
I just figured that doing more zone 2 allows me to get used to riding longer, and if I can ride longer slowly then I should be able to push myself a bit harder for longer as well as my overall endurance goes up (for example riding at 80% of FTP for 1.5 hours as opposed to just 1.
Then do that. If you teleport btwn them you can make yourself a nice little interval workout, if you want to. Or just do a pyramid up and down. You may also find you’re tempted to have a dart at a sprint segment or two.
Check out the workout plans in zwift to help find what you are looking for. There is a FTP builder plan there that I just started that is 4hrs per week. After you do a workout, do a 1hr pacer ride at a pace that keeps in you z2 as much as possible. That way you get the structured training you are looking for and you’ll earn plenty of drops for new frames / wheels / upgrades for future racing.
Another option for the FTP test is to do The Grade.
It may be a good idea to warm up a bit before hitting it. Choose “Elevation Evaluation” to get a bit of a warm up before The Grade. Once you complete The Grade, you don’t have to finish the route if you don’t want.
I was able to do my first ever metric century today (it’s a shame I could probably never do it outside)…did it in 4:06:00. Not very fast, but at least I did it. That was on top of a 16km ride I did before that as well.
I’m assuming my ability to do a metric century shows that my Zone 2 capabilities are high enough and I should be focusing on intervals and such? Or am I mistaken?
