Wattage Badges- Unequal /discriminatory rewards?

I am making this comment as equality is a big topic currently and rightly so.
I passionately believe that the wattage badges are not equal, are discriminatory and should be changed. I emailed Zwift and they suggested it was posted on here, they say they will look at it too.
These badges are without doubt discriminatory to lighter riders, who will be typically female or racial types like Japanese, South Korean.
For example an average Japenese female weighs 53kg. To hit 1000w and get the reward badge she needs to generate nearly 19 wkg- HUGE number.
The average US male weighs 89kg- he only needs to generate 11wkg still a big number but not HUGE.
For context I looked up Peter Sagan- his final sprint in a race would be 1500w. At his 78kg weight that gives him 19wkg- HUGE, but he’s a pro and the worlds NO1 sprinter.
So to get this badge reward Zwift are asking a typically female or lighter racial type to match wkg with Sagan? but your typical US male club rider, can take it a lot easier and has a reasonable chance with his 11wkg.
A simple change would be to make the “reward” badges a max wkg.
Everyone who plays the game, pays the same subscription then has the same opportunity to get the reward. This is how it should be.
Leave it at 20wkg if thats the benchmark, but that at least gives the 53kg rider the same challenge as the 89kg rider.
I cannot see how this would disadvantage anyone, and is without doubt inclusive.

I have had some chatter on this on facebook, but apart from negative comments from heavier guys, who go off on tangents about how they have to struggle with the Alpe in under an hour badge ( I pointed out you need 3.6-3.7wkg for this, so not impossible and is fair) NO-ONE has come up with a valid reason why the change to wkg would be more unfair than as it stands now.
Please comment if you agree or not, if you dont agree, please dont get aggressive or state belittling comments like- “So you just want everyone to get a badge, thats the trouble with schools these days…” or “The worlds not fair get over it” Please explain why you dont think it should be changed, or if you agree it should. Thank you and Ride On.

Good points, never thought of that since I’m still not that strong of a rider, but I’m 65 kg and it would make more sense to replace the watts based achievements with ones based on w/kg.

and while we are at it the Feather Power up should be 10% of the rider weight not 9.5kg for 15 seconds.

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I think that’s why those power badges are hidden. You don’t even see them until you earn them

Many badges give 0 xp as well

I know I can’t get all the power badges, and that’s as an 85kg man

I’d agree that not everyone has the same opportunity to earn these badges, but Im not forced to stare at the ones I can’t get and I’m not sure the rewards are even worthwhile for earning them

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While I don’t disagree with the point you’re making, the thing I do like about the badges for specific watts is that they (generally) can’t be ‘gamed’. WKG, on the other hand, can easily be cheated in the same manner we see regularly: with riders just changing their weight so that they can get the badge (or go faster up a climb, or whatever). The watts badges can still be gotten illegitimately, of course, but this is mainly due to bad setups as opposed to cheating. There really is no ‘one size fits all’ answer to this, IMO. I also wonder where all of this stops. I mean, someone could come on here and propose that the 100K and 100 miles badges are ‘discriminatory’ to people who have full time jobs and kids because they’ll never have the time to ride for that long. This is a different sort of discrimination, of course, but it is still a type of exclusion.

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Thanks Nigel for constructive comments, yes the “gaming” thing is there- cant think of a solution. My only comment is that folk who want to cheat always will, I mean I could get my husband to log in as me and get the badges that way, but for those of us who want to earn them fairly, and want to still see a “power” one to go for, I cant see any other way than wkg.
I understand your tongue in cheek 100k and 100 miles comment- like the alpe under an hour they might be hard to get for different circumstances, but not impossible.

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Not sure about that one, only because I am too dumb to remember to use any of the “ups” in game! Tell me how this works, and yes if its not fair, it should be looked at.

Gerrie is referring specifically to the Feather PU, which makes the rider 21 pounds (9.5 kg) lighter for 15 seconds. So, if you weigh less this PU effectively reduces your weight by a larger percentage than if you’re a heavy rider. Therefore, it is ‘discriminatory’ toward heavier people. I tend to agree with Gerrie that the feather should reduce your in-game weight by a specific percentage, instead of a specific amount of weight.

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Yes, should be changed, its discriminatory for sure, US average male does not get the same advantage as a smaller Korean female. When actually on the hills, they probably need a bigger lift. Needs to be equal. I might even try using it!

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I understand the original post, but I must say that side is the game part and I’m not complaining about the badges I cannot achieve because of a disability I have. Where does this all stop, and lastly by comparing race I find that discriminatory, my partner is 100% British and weighs 50kg and would have the same issue, stop making everything race related it’s a world full of PEOPLE and we are all different in our own way.

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I got them when I used to use bluetooth and the signal would drop all the time and then when it would reconnect my watts would shoot way up for a split second, almost like for the few seconds the signal dropped my watts were banked up and then released as the connection came back. Kind of like boost mode :rofl:

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Haha like kinking the watt hose to build up pressure and letting it all out at once!

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Some great points being made in this conversation. Thanks @Dawn_Courage for starting it!

I’ve shared this with our team so we can discuss to improve the badge-chasing experience for all members.

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Hi Michael,

You have not provided an answer as to why wkg would not be a better alternative than watts for the badge reward measurement, or how making the change would discriminate against anyone .
As an aside- I am white UK/Aussie, ( no idea if its 100% and could not careless if its 1%, 25% 76%) I am extremely privileged, we all need to start looking at racial and gender discrimination from our position of power. This might be very small in the world wide scheme, but the changes have to start with us.

The issue with w/kg is that I can edit my kg…

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Completely agree! I am one of those 53- kg female riders! Those high watt badges just seem unobtainable despite what I might do for training. Others with work are. Should be w/kg. Riders who game the system are just cheating themselves.

Nothing wrong with the way it is. These days its far too easy for people to use the discrimination word. There are far more pressing issues in the world than this.

Personally I enjoy going for a set number of watts. And thats me being an out and out time trialist with a decent ftp / 20 min power. And not much of a sprint… thus being at a disadvantage as well. I say keep it as is and deal with some of the real problems in the game.

And I’ve seen plenty of 50kg Japanese men hammering out sprints over 1000 w/kg in races…either it isn’t that hard for them to do… or they lie about their weight to manipulate things like this, which can be done for the sprint badge.

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While I can appreciate that there is a certain amount of potential perceived unfairness involved with the current system, I think we need to be very cautious about calling something “discriminatory”. No set of rules will ever be perceived as “fair” to all. For example, many of us have disabilities that prevent us from being able to achieve all available badges. I live in an area with horrendous internet service and have had numerous rides (with the badges earned in that ride) not count because the internet went out while I was saving and closing the app. It would be impossible to create a system wherein all people could achieve equal results within the game. Smaller, lighter riders have an advantage going uphill. This gives them an advantage on other badges such as climbing the Alp in under an hour. It would be discriminatory if folks from one race, ■■■, religion, or other protected class had to produce 1200 watts for a badge that others only had to produce 1000 watts to earn. As it is currently, the same rules apply to everyone regardless of ■■■, race or other protected class. There is nothing discriminatory in that, even if it means that some badges will never be truly achievable for some of us.

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So what is the argument against making this badge , the 20wkg badge? Gives everyone the same chance of getting it. ?? Sorry I cannot understand the argument against it. It still asks for massive watts- ones personally I am still unable to get, but it gives everyone a level playing field. (without cheating)
If thats too hard, make it 10wkg. Still very hard.

So 20 w/kg…
At 100 kg that’s 2000 watts!!
Or at 50 kg 1000 watts

So basically anyone that can produce 1000 watts can earn that badge if they change their weight to 50 kg… So in effect a 20 w/kg badge is the exact same thing as the 1000 watt badge

People cheat with weight and even height to try and be faster in zwift and there’s no point in rewarding that imo

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