Yesterday I raced in Category D in the 4.00pm (GMT) DBR Friday Race on Empire Elevation (activity 2032150554951565312). The race was category enforced.
I see on Zwift Power that the podium position riders all have ZRS above 350 which was the maximum for Category D. 1st = 467 ZRS, 2nd = 410 and 3rd = 379.
How is this possible?
1st and 2nd had big increases in ZRS since their last race, but not due to yesterdayâs race. I can only presume both set a new 5min best in a zwift session that doesnât show in zwiftpower, such as a solo erg workout.
But then Iâd normally expect yesterdayâs result to show approx +130 and +70 in the ZRS plugin for zwiftpower, however they only show +13 and +8.
Is ZRS plugin now not showing increases due to seed score (5min) changes and only changes from finish positions? 
I believe they did set new 90 day pbs during the race.
Yes I think this week Zwift made a change where in race pb increases donât show within the score movement result. Score movement only shows the actual race result change. So 13 and 10 are result movement and probably include a podium bonus, if one is still in use.
( I think there are the odd score movements which differ slightly to show a move or increase to floor ? )
I got ahead of myself thinking that the ZRS were pre-race scores, obviously theyâre not! I do not however believe that you gain 117 ZRS for a win (in the scenario where #1 goes from 350 to 467 for example).
But anyway, this is all specualtion as the results show ZRS changes of +13 for #1 +10 for #2 so they were DEFINITELY above 350 before the race - see attached screenshot. Strangely, that also shows #3 as having ended the race with 343 so within the Category limits while on Zwift Power itâs 379 so with a change of +8 they started the race at 371 (unless they did something after the race that increased racing score).
This is likely not the case. The winner did 4.1 w/kg for 5 min, before the race he hadnât done more than 3.6 since before the summer. This would give him a new seed score during the race, not before it, and caused his score to jump well above the limits.
Unfortunately the system doesnât show these new seed scores very well so you have to do some digging in situations like this.
Have you tried entering a ZRS race pen below your own ZRS range? The system doesnât allow you to do so.
So they were DEFINITELY below 350 before they started the race.
Are you aware what a new 5 minute pb does to a racerâs Seed and therefore their ZRS score. You can certainly gain more than 100+ points from a race (in fact you donât even need to win it) from a new 5 minute PB pb alone.
It is certainly frustrating as Zwift donât show all the ZRS score workings and almost certainly no member of Zwift staff will visit your forum post and explain or clarify - you need to rely on others who have put together very accurate 5 min pb / seed calculation spreadsheets.
Try plugging in the winners race result 5 min pb of 350 watts and his ZwiftPower race weight of 85kg. That will give you a fairly accurate estimation of his new seed. Then add on his 13 points for winning the race and you will be very close to his new ZRS score of 467.
You can also gain 207 in a race as I found out yesterday! First place jumped 207 from 533 to 740, second place (marked as a pro rider!), also jumped a similar amount.
First place increase was down to a new 5min pb of 5.4 w/kg I assume. Heâs been training hardâŚ..
This was a B category race.
But the results only show an increase to their ZRS score of 14 and 11 respectively, which confused me and obviously lots of others until you do a bit of digging.
As an aside, very bizarre behaviour from riders in the race, breaking away for banners as if itâs a point race, lots using feathers on downhills, a rider using the draft boost about 10 meters off the front on his own. have Zwift introduced bot riders to increase the field size? 
It was my first ZRacing monthly race for a while!
Thanks all for the replies. I remain sceptical however (but do now accept that these riders were within the category limits when they started the race).
I placed 1st yesterday in the Hell of the North race at 11.10am GMT (activity ID 5230499 on Zwift Power) and had an improved 5 min power output. My racing score increased 26 points.
How is it that I only gain 26 points when 1st place with a 5 min PB gained 117 in the race Iâm referring to on this thread (or more, as is likely, if their zrs was below 350 when they started the race)?
I also find it strange that someone would go from cat D into C on the basis of one performance and find themselves 69% of the way up that category (467 or 117 representing 69% of the 350 - 520 band). Or maybe I just totally misunderstand the systemâŚ
In the absence of clearer guidance on zrs my intuition suggests that the vELO rating system has more validity / utility.
Iâm pretty sure that the sad fact is that ZRS is actively encouraging racers to not finish in as high a position as they should, unless they are in the strongest pen.
Why?
Because ZRS isnât elo based and simply gives you points for finishing in the top half of the pen numbers that signed up for the race, not even just the top half of those who joined the race pen or passed the finish line.
It doesnât care if you were always going to finish in the top 10% because on paper you were one of the strongest in the pen signups.
Many racers will try and avoid getting a pen promotion because even though ZRS pen doesnât correlate well with ability, races are harder in stronger pens.
People want to race, but donât want to consistently finish well and will do silly things to actively try to finish lower.
I am very new to Zwift but it seems there is substantial antagonism towards ZRS. And that there are viable / better alternatives.
Why does something so basic as ZRS (I donât mean rankings / ratings are straightforward to design or implement, I am certain theyâre not!) not receive greater attention, itâs such a fundamental component of the Zwift ecosystem?
Why not make this a top priority, generate feedback from users, consult leaders in the field, look at how other cycling / non-cycling platforms go about this? Find out what best practice looks like and go for that!
What is so wrong with the vELO system? I know very little about it (the elo rating system) but it was designed, I understand, for chess; Iâm imagining chess players, grand masters included, wouldnât go along with something plucked out of the air / incoherent 
Can we not conclude itâs very fit for purpose?
Those of us whoâve been here the entire time have the same questions you do. We donât understand why they (Zwift) has to reinvent the wheel with everything they do, like ZRS and zFTP and zMAPâŚ. And then leave things rotting on the vine for months without any iteration or improvement or communication.
I enjoy racing just as motivation for a hard ride.
Iâve been participating in WTRLâs ZRL on Tuesday and TTT on Thursday and not once has the Zwift racing score been an issue or been used.
If you have complaints about ZRS get involved with WTRL.
It doesnât look like improving ZRS is on the schedule.
It kind of says a lot when the premier and largest racing league on Zwift, ZRL, outsources the management to WTRL and they donât use ZRS at all.
Itâs amazing that zwift could come up with a race categorisation system thatâs even worse at reflecting ability than CE.
Even if itâs debatable, CE is so bad that being universally accepted as better should be the bare minimum.
But surely you shouldnât have to âgo elsewhereâ? Itâs such a fundamental component of Zwift racing that it seems reasonable to expect, at the very least, for considered and constructive feedback to be actively engaged with. Yet nowhere, as far as Iâm aware, is there a dialogue (initiated by Zwift) about ZRS limitations and what future options might be around this.
It would be healthy and helpful to see valid criticisms responded to in an open forum.
wtrl is even more of a wild west for cheating and sandbagging
Sorry for the salt, just doing a quick vibe check! 
Why waste money on ZRS? Real athletes find the results hilarious because the âgod-tierâ data is a joke. Itâs pointless to build a complex ranking system on top of unverified hardware. Zwift shouldnât waste their limited budget on thisâitâs not a money-maker and itâll never be fair. Itâs a video game where people âwinâ from their garages; letâs not pretend itâs the Tour de France just because someone calibrated their trainer with a hairdryer. 
Just because it can never be a perfect system, doesnât mean Zwift shouldnât provide something thatâs a reasonable ranking system putting aside calibration and deliberate cheating issues.
vELO has demonstrated what can be done.
But surely you shouldnât have to âgo elsewhereâ? Itâs such a fundamental component of Zwift.
Racers have always had to organize âoutsideâ of Zwift.
From early meet ups and race to looking at Zwift Power for the ârealâ results.
Very little has changed.
[quote=âRich - F365, post:16, topic:661674, username:Richâ]
wtrl is even more of a wild west for cheating and sandbagging
[/quote
It could be.
I only get to experience my category of C Dev.
It seems really good but that might be because Iâm in the sweet spot of finishing at the top 25-40 % of the riders.
Iâm never dropped and can push as hard as I can breath and not pass out.
I know not everyone can fit into that position.
]
