Yes, but he had to work hard for it. Thats not the game they are used to.
It’s Z2 & sprint. That’s the only fair way forward.
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@Philip_Procter i dont know if you can put my math into zwift Forums you may get Ban for it. Math is to hard.
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I think the biggest problem that everyone is facing now is that currently, this is still a power based system because it’s based on seed scores from … you guessed it - power profiles.
Zwiftracingapp is better as it is built on results and power and hopefully after the zwift racing score is implemented and used acoss all races, it will become a good tool for categorizing racers into pens.
My experience has been meh, as I have a good 15 second sprint, which translates into high 30 second power as it averages across the timespan, so my seed score was 530 something. In my races with the new score (450-550 pen), this translated to a field with zwiftracingapp scores ranging from 942 or silver (one outlier) all the way to sapphire (two outliers). The majority of the top 10 was sapphire, and top 20 was platinum or sapphire.
Golds (I am one) filled up the spots from 25-30 (last finisher).
Again hopefully this will sort itself out once it gets beyond seed scores, and takes into account results for all races. Right now, the seed score grouping together everyone from 942-1526 zwiftracingapp scores, shows that the seed score is pretty flawed.
Why is everyone saying they abandoned the 20 minute power. Yes they are looking at 10 minute power but you can calculate one from the other especially if you know the 30 second power. It is not exact but it will be within ~5%.
Off the cuff I would say that
20 min power = ~ 10 minute power * .95
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Does your score go up based on who you raced with?
My score went up because the rider I beat who came in last place just did an easy ride. So if people enter races and do a Z2 is this not going to screw the scoring?
Exactly my thought. And I think theoretically it’s more likely a max 10 minute effort will exist for more riders than a 20-minute would.
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There should be a mechanism to prevent people riding below some minimum level of effort from getting their score reduced. ZRapp has something like this. The same mechanism could be used to prevent those same riders impacting the score of everyone else in the race.
No idea if zwift has included this, or if it will make it into the final version. There’s no documentation confirming one way or the other, and I haven’t seen enough data to make an educated guess.
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Race 1 no movement of racing score
Race 2 racing score down 5
Race 3 racing score down 19
Race 4 racing score up 15
All scores from companion app as no movement on zwiftpower.
Race 1-2-3 efforts greater than race 4, only reason I can see why such a jump in race 4 is the guy behinds effort for this event was according to Zwift Racing app was a 69 compared to his usually efforts in the 80/90s. Race prediction had me as last. So not looking good if people can nobble their efforts and push other riders scores artificially upwards.
This equation works well for top time trialists who are super fit, but it is not accurate for regular amateur population, and definitely not for powerful sprinters whose CP drops off quickly. My power drops by 13% from 10m to 20m. Cycling performance coaches got one good saying: if you cannot measure it, do not calculate it.
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You were pretty lucky. In my race, we had a bizarre mix of rankings ranging from 907 silver to 1928 ruby. This mess won’t be sorted out even if the bonuses are increased as indicated. If the base of the house is flawed (seed scores that penalise sprinters), then the roof will not be any different. If it is still true that you cannot go below your seed score no matter how hard you try, many people will be locked in incorrect categories.
If Zwift eventually introduces the velodrome, it suits my phenotype and I can probably be successful in short track races there. My Racing Score 545 will go up, perhaps to 600, which is already the territory of A racers. With my 3W/kg 20m power (officially 2.42W/kg), it basically means I would only be able to race in the velodrome, effectively closing the door for any other race for me.
The real question is whether Zwift management wants to create an inclusive platform that encourages everyone to participate and have fun, or if they just want to offer a limited experience to some of us. One possible solution could be to have separate rankings for velodrome races and other races, but then heavier or lighter riders might want separate rankings for flat and mountainous races, and it could become a never-ending cycle.
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You can still race in all the races, performing well is another question.
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Hopefully Zwift will have a look at the data and see the seed scoring is way off. If they wanted it to work well, all they had to do was buy the algrorithm from the zwiftracingapp which seems to work great in creating competitive and fair pens based on my experience in race series that use that as the base for categorizing riders. That or something like what virtuslo does for their power categories would have been better than the seed scoring nonsense that’s being used, it’s great for As and Bs that want to win races against Cs and Ds but that’s about it.
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artificially upwards, i race at all times of the day, groups of 100+ to groups of only 10 riders, is it not right for me race with group of 10? i am force there points to go up ? ZP , zwift points , ZRA? @N_otsoslim
That’s the thing, you raced, if they beat you and their points go up that’s how people improve their scores BUT if you do not race and ride the event at sub 2wkg and they beat you their scores go up because of this. People’s scores should go up because they raced and finished in front of others racing, not because they finished in front of someone doing a z2
Tim himself says that Zwift implementation of seed scoring is more accurate than zr.app
I think the difference is zr.app has had a lot more result based data to further modify a users score.
It doesn’t look a mile off being good and i think zwift have an update to come on seed score so will see what that brings.
I’ve been using cats similar to Virtuslo in our weekly race and they also have issues in that heavier riders are slightly over ranked. Zwift old CS is as flawed.
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Will be interesting to see how the results pan out from the Racing Score events from the Zwift hill climb club races today on Oh Hill No, next one in just over half an hour at 1230 BST.
Some pen E (sub 225) results don’t make sense on zwiftpower, one racer supposedly finished in under 19mins, but they provisionally have 3W/Kg in the 20min column!
Edit: Maybe results time is KOM time, but 20mins column accounts for descent back to the route finish banner.
The zwiftpower results only include the time on the KOM segment, but the race time includes at least the lead in, not sure about the rest of the route. So a 20 minute interval included with the 19 minute result makes sense.
I don’t know if the zwift results get updated to the correct time and finish order or if it’s only zwiftpower. Will the racing score changes work properly?
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But in a flat race with small punches they will have lost out in the sprint (if they made it that far) looking at their sprint power numbers.
Example of extreme result, but not for the reasons we are used to.
I hope that what zwift are doing is taking a look at how different rider profiles play out with each course compared with base score to improve that number to balance a bit better, but on this course expected result. What woukd have expected if an IRL race?