Right, I see; probably only a problem if you’re already aiming for the top 25% or higher in the group though. I mean, who sandbags to finish in the bottom half of a race? 
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LOL. almost spit my coffee on my screen. You win the internet today!!
It is just that they mess up the dynamics of the race, so the start is a lot harder than it need to be, and other riders stick to their wheels.
That’s true; but that’s a problem with all the races where starts aren’t staggered. If a C can hang on with some B or A riders for a while, they’re at a huge advantage over those who got dropped early on.
Even with the chase race style it can have an impact; if you’re a C who manages to catch the B or A train as they steam past, you’re almost guaranteed to win to come close to winning your group.
Frankly, I’d say that even if every race had a staggered start and everyone was riding in their legitimate category, “Zwift starts” strongly favour some riders over others. If you have great 1 minute power, good 5 minute power and a weaker 20 minute power, you’re probably still going to beat another rider who has the same 20 minute power or FTP but a lower 1 minute power, just because you get ahead from the start and once that gap’s there both riders are more or less riding at the same pace.
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O yes the Zwift starts. 
I need to double check the statement that Im going to make now: So when we did the CVR world cup we had smaller fields and not many non racers entered, after a few weeks we knew who was our competition and the starts changed a lot, suddenly we were watching each other and saving matches for the climbs and sprint sections. I wonder if this will also happen if we have staggered starts and the correct people in the pen.
It will be so cool if we can have all these different options to test and use to see what work and what people like.
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I didn’t say they were. Just that we’re specifically talking about racing on Zwift.
Boy, I opened a can of worms.
The top of a group will always beat the bottom of a group, and my goal (at my age) isn’t to win stuff, however I’d like to feel I’m in the proper neighborhood category wise. Like I said .5 range would be awesome I think.
I’m killing myself, because I’ve enjoyed doing Team Time Trials and doing those red lined, I barely creep into the B category.
So I need to either give up the TTT and hope I get moved back down.
This discussion got me poking around with results, and not only am I nowhere near the top of B’s, I’m getting killed by the middle of the pack.
Just yesterday I entered an event as a B, but rode with the C’s and actually got killed by the “racers” in that category, but had more fun riding with the 3rdish group.
I’ll give up now, and accept that most of us agree to disagree.
Thanks for the back and forth though.
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Your mistake is to imagine that all riders with an equivlent W/kg will be on an equal footing and have the same chance of winning. It’s all about your actual power curve and using it to beat people that (in theory) should be faster.
Effectively this means that people with a good 2-3 minute W/kg compared to their cohorts will be able to stay with the faster riders when starting in a mixed category race. And that means that for that type of race those riders are better.
The good news is that if you do a lot of Zwift racing the fast starts will make your 2-3 minute power better. Just keep pushing to stay with the fastest riders. Eventually you will be the fastest rider in your category.
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After taking a few months off early summer due to injury I’m just pushing back up into the B’s. And spend a lot of time in groups that are mostly C’s.
I mostly do races that are mass start. Go as fast as I can to get into whatever group I can stay with. Then race that group until the end of the race. Sometimes mostly B’s. Sometimes mostly C’s. I don’t pay too much attention to anything other than trying to drop everyone I’m with and not get droped by anyone I’m with.
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I’m not imagining that in the slightest. It’s not necessarily the case, and it depends a lot on the course being ridden, the others in the groups both riders are in, how well they can use the draft, what their trainer difficulty is set at, etc. etc.
But I still believe that Zwift starts are a disadvantage to anyone who can’t hang with them. If you can and you can do those little bursts needed to ensure you don’t lose the draft, you’ll do better overall. I think someone with punchy power does better typically in Zwift races than someone who’s more of a steady endurance rider. I’m only basing that on my own racing experience though, which admittedly is only about 50 races.
I dare say we’re saying the same thing in a different way, and I do take your point that if you can hang with those starts and bursts you are the better rider for those sorts of rides.
So yesterday I entered my first Zwift race (tour of Zwift stage 5 or 6). I put myself in the D (up to 2.4w/kg). Well right from the start I had to go way over that for about 10 minutes until I dropped out. What am I missing. 90% were going way past the advertised category guidelines. Thanks for suggestions. Curt
Good luck!
Lots of weight dippers and just flat out sand baggers. Let alone I still think the ranges are to wide.
Hi @curt_peterson Welcome to the forum.
The 2.4w/k is not a upper limit it is the average for the best 20min over the whole race. So a rider can do 5w/kg in the first 5 min then go down to 2w/kg and he will be within the limits of the race category.
Actually it is 95% of the best 20 min power.
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Hey @Gerrie_Delport at the start of this thread you posted a screenshot from Zwiftpower (I assume) where the real categories of riders were visible as small letters alongside the race category they entered. I don’t see this little real category letter in my Zwiftpower race results - how do I get it to show?
Thanks in advance!
Hi @John_Molloy,
You can find those on the live tab on Zwift power, it is only available while the event is active and it is not for all events.
It should be there, but ZP is currently doing some maintenance.
