Just had an instance of putting down 3.6 against Yumi doing 2.9 and continuing to fall further back in the pack because I was being blocked by 4.1.
PD4.1 works really well at the front of a group but it’s completely broken deep in the pack.
I’ll upload a video if small mp4 uploads get turned on.
Were you far enough back that you were getting the “move closer” notification? I did 90mins with Yumi yesterday and my average power was totally fine (213W average), but the one time I let myself get far enough back to get the “move closer” notification I tried to slowly ramp my power to avoid spiking heart rate, but I started going above 250-260W and was still seeing the distance from Yumi pick up at that power.
I ended up spiking my power well above that to move back up, but that’s the one time in that ride yesterday I felt way off from a power perspective.
My guess is everyone at the back got that “move closer” notification and started bumping up their power, so matching the power to those in front without spiking power becomes more difficult.
Yes. People around me were doing >3 but I was doing more than those around me. Regardless, if I’m in a group doing 10-25% more power than the bot we should all speed up and close the gap instead of falling further behind.
I’m guessing “get dropped from a pace partner group while doing 25% more power than the bot” was not an intended outcome of PD4.1.
Not really seeing it myself.
Did an hour with Maria (2.2wkg) yesterday and averaged 2.1wkg.
I did position myself either level or just ahead of the RP.
You can see from my peaks that I did push a few times mainly from inattention watching TV, but for the hour I was lower than the advertised pace?
I also come in under the advertised effort level in aggregate, except for the times that I don’t and get dropped when doing 20% more than the bot. Converting the 4mb mp4 video screenshot to a gif blows it up to 45mb so I can’t upload that here.
Can PD4.0 be applied to RoboPacers to eliminate the surge fest of racing dynamics?
Upload to YouTube and share link.
I happen to agree with your assessment. Coming back to suggesting RoboPacers be reverted to PD4.0 - it was more predictable. Leave PD4.1 to the racers. I ride several hundred kilometers a week with pacers and it’s just not enjoyable now.
Friction is something that should be removed from the system, not added. I’ll continue to either convert to huge gifs and/or complain about it until the issue is dealt with. Is this something @James_Zwift can address?
Everyone else would still be under PD4.1 so the blocking, surging, wasted watts etc. will still happen, just with a bot floating through the pack.
I suspect that the issue is increasingly apparent at higher power and speeds since the draft effect is greater and passing becomes more difficult under the PD4.1 passing check. I also think the issue is more pronounced in larger groups where there is a greater likelihood of log jamming and competition for space. So, Coco and Yumi may be the worst because they are both relatively quick and usually pretty crowded.
For those struggling, I finally said screw it and rode a TT bike solo to avoid the frustration of hanging with a RP. Believe it or not, I passed Yumi’s group towards the end of my ride and left them in the dust despite riding pretty close to what I’d normally do while riding with them on a road bike (~220 watts or about 2.9 w/kg). I did put out a slight attack while passing to keep from causing them to latch on and disrupting their pace.
I just did Tick Tock with Maria and found that if the group kept 5-10m ahead of her, that effort was far less,.
As I understand it, the available scope of pack dynamics is either limited to inside an event, or applied to an entire world.
There have been issues with bots running old versions of the software and thus having incorrect pack dynamics. Happened during the entire Makuri-only PD4.1 rollout phase.
That’s not a long term solution to the problem. They can’t run on outdated software forever. For example they would not have access to the new routes that are coming out.
I’m not suggesting they run outdated Zwift versions, just stating that there are ways around the pack dynamics due to how Zwift works. Besides, like I said earlier, putting just-the-bot on different pack dynamics won’t fix the problem.
the tempus fugit bot is all over the place. i dont know what exactly is causing it, but something aint right, it speeds up and slows down pretty randomly. my z1 and netflix ride turned into a three zone Build Me Up special.
sorry i can’t be more specific, just wanted to add my voice in support of the people who actually use these things often
The problems in the back of the pack exist in races as well and are a real PITA in big fast races e.g. ZRL.
PD4.1 is really impressive at the front of the pack. It just falls apart in the back.
You could just get a TT bike and ride alone away from the bots. You won’t get the 40km in 60min or 60km in 90 minutes that people used to love at 2.5w/kg but it will be more steady.
As someone really light I got fed up with the effect of being stuck at the back of the group and having to do massive watts/kg to overtake the back. I don’t have to accelerate that massively IRL to overtake a group, just a little bit extra power is enough.
My daily ride on Zwift is now only ADZ on my own (real ride, not ERG) because I hate how PD4,1 works for groups.
I don’t think anyone is listening to us regular folks anymore since racing has taken center stage it seems like.
Yeah. Riding ZRL in the EMEAE Central Division A1 with the new pack dynamics (~100 riders) has been quite horrible.
