That’s why I’m working on PD 4.1. I’m quite hopeful that the release coming out mid June will bring a lot of positive changes 
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Isn’t this something that’s (supposedly) being worked on? Funny that we never hear any updates from Zwift about this 
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It’s currently paused due to other priorities, but still in the plans.
Fixing CE taking priority?
Worth a shot
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Want to check in on the 70% power drop requirement.
Here I am doing 127 watts a power drop of 70% or more means I would had to be doing 400 watts+ in the previous 10 seconds. But as you can see we are chilling in the tunnel and no one pushing, so we wouldn’t have done 400+ watts prior. My average 1 min power is around 192 watts at this point.
This is the extension to the youtube video /watch?v=8Bekvq0oq5o&t=1831s&ab_channel=WilliamNg
You are right, but there are many other things that you are noticing while you are racing. One thing is that the gap between you are the rider in front doesn’t close or it widens. To offset that you will push more watts. At the end of the day, the end effect is do you need to push more watts. If you do, then you notice it.
Please read my other post, 2 posts down from the one you replied from
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It’s pretty obvious to me that the lack of breakaway/late attack comes from the lack of penalty for riders in the draft in large groups. When a large group of rider enter a corner the first rider choose it’s line so the corner is easy for him but he had to ride at the front which was obviously harder. All other rider have to find room and are forced to brake for compromised lines and position. It’s also a domino/additive effect if you are way back in the group the group will be strectched and you’ll have to wait a long time even before entering the turn. After this event you will have a very hard time sprinting to keep up with the front of the group.
All this penalise the big group compared to the breakway. It would make for very different/more interesting racing at crit city for example. But it would be true for most non pure climbing tracks. It might even make climbing races more interesting too because going down the mountains pack have a big drafting advantage on breakaway while irl breakaway usually go down pretty fast because they can ride their line.
In the end programming a braking behaviour to keep some distance between rider or to take corner at a somewhat realistic speed would automatically solve many pack dynamic problems in one stone. Racing would definitely be more interesting.
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After watching the video again, that shouldn’t have trigger either. There wasn’t any big net change in draft, we are just steady pace riding, no attacks in the tunnel here and recovering from the bump out of the desert. I been just drafting the back of these 3 riders.
Whether the 70% is right I’m not sure but what I’m seeing on screen looks reasonable point to apply some sort of brake. you increase the power slightly to catch the 3 ahead than ease off. The brake is for a split second so i don’t see an issue here
on my super brief look at power drop it’s around 55%
Not sure where you got the 55%, since I was drafting behind them pacing around 200 watts. There might be single skips of 250-280, but that isn’t the 10s average more like a fraction of the second.
So David P. Mention there are two types of auto braking. A drop of 70% and “That’s another form of possible auto-braking. There are different rules. Transitions from medium to low draft usually occur near the front or the sides of the pack. Those require also less of a power drop (only 10%).”
From a system stand point, this would be a bug because it fits neither, my power didn’t drop 70% nor was there a big transition of draft since I am just sitting behind the 3 riders cruising to recover and they didn’t change their pace.
yep from about 280 max to 120. I would worry less about exact percentages leave that to ZHQ and ride and see what feels natural
I’ve been less concerned on proving the exact figures more on what seems natural and with your power increase then decrease as you approached a group of riders a brief autobrake seems to be reasonable.
Possibly why they should not show the red autobrake as people focus on that too much rather than what feels natural
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“Sauce Anxiety Syndrome” - help is available 
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I think David P. Objectively is to figure out is there any departure from a his parameters and this is a departure. As for intended use, I can’t see the reasoning behind auto-braking in this situation when the riders are just chilling in recovery. I been drafting these guys since the beginning of the tunnel and there isn’t any intent to push in front of them.
This photo isn’t to indicate horrible is going on at this moment, but if the auto-braking is too sensitive when you are about to blow up your wattage usually varies more. You might sprint for half a second and give out and see the pack pulling away, and repeat the process till you get drop. Getting hit by autobraking at this moment is game over.
As a side note: On Monday’s TFC race, I was hit by a lot of auto-braking out of the blue, I actually asked during the race and other riders notice that as well.
You are going at power behind a group of riders then slow down. If you did that in real life you would of crashed. As you say there is no intent to get past so autobrake would seem like the obvious choice to slow you.
I’ll have to check your stream from Monday. I don’t usually show autobraking but when you mentioned it in the race i pulled it on screen and didn’t notice anything out the normal for a lap or so.
If this was a positive trigger, it’s way to sensitive and will have many false triggers in a race. I am just holding 38-40 kmh behind them in the draft, you going to add power in the draft when you see your gap goes from 1 meter to 3 meter to stay close. And as you get back close to 1 meter you feather out the watts and lowering it. That is the same in real life. I highly doubt I would have cross the first riders wheel and definitely wouldn’t have accidently shot out in front.
What does does cause was me losing my momentum and inertia, my speed drops from 39 kmh to 37 kmh, which lead to me pushing 220 watts for a few extra seconds to get back up to pace. Not a big issue in this spot but would be horrible if I am on the edge of blowing up.
it’s the last riders wheel not the first. think irl if you would hit that riders wheel.
If you are pushing an extra 220 watts every time you see a flash of red i’m not surprised you are going to get tired quick and yoyo around the pack. have you tried riding with your sauce window over the power to see how it feels when you aren’t looking for a red flash?
With only three riders (mostly in line rather than abreast) on a wide open road IRL he’d go past easily if he wanted to. It’s not like he’s barging through the middle of a pack of 20.
I thought everyone agreed sticky draft sucked, just calling it “pack dynamics” doesn’t make it any better.
Come on, even in real life if you exceed the riders wheel you know to peel to the right or left of that rider. This is wide road, unless my avatar is staring at his phone, you might just go 1/4 bike length next to the rider in front and fall back behind them.
And pushing 220 watts is about 2.6 w/kg. it isn’t a recovery for me, but for a split second to get up to speed isn’t consider an effort either.
i’'d agree so the question then comes how does autobraking deal with pack size if at all. e.g if peloton is less than n should you just get pushed sideways around the group and autobreaking does not apply at all unless a certain pack size is met?
Maybe it does or meant to but that would see a more logical approach