If so, let’s get more of this, then! 
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I’m not sure to agree or not? 7 laps ZRL, where prime-hunting yielded full gas efforts climbing. Chasing Roubaix was more stable tempo pacing (not referring to Coggan power zone 3 of 7), where time spent at zone 6/7 was less, cumulatively, especially for guys with higher CP or ‘zFTP’
The lead group of As zoomed past lapped riders where speed differential, delta speed, was considerable. If 50 meters is closed in 1-2 seconds, blob draft effect(s) is/are minimal
ZRL = ZwiftPower - Login
Chasing Roubaix = ZwiftPower - Login (wrong original link; now fixed)
Johannes enunciates my concerns (seemingly) perfectly
You might also be looking at the other side of the equation. I think the keyword now is: cooperation.
If there is cooperation in a breakaway group or in the chasing pack the chances of success are higher.
If there is more relaxing or hesitation the chances of being slowed down are higher.
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Well, might be something to consider for the future. At this point in time that would be a too much disruptive change IMO. Remember that this needs to work generally, not just for the “racing bubble” 
We must also take into account any visual strangeness created by such change.
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I think the issue is that actual cooporation as opposed to mindless churn/optimizing behavior for PD4 are not necessarily different with regards to outcome, despite being different with regards to intent.
While a group of riders doing high steady state power at the front of a pack might give the impression of actual cooporation, I think the reality could very well be that they’re in many cases either mindlessly churning just like in PD3 or purposefully riding steady state near the very front to avoid auto-braking and to be better positioned to avoid ending up at the back of the pack, as it gets strung out, when someone tries to snap the elastic in earnest.
Regardless of intent, the outcome is that it’s harder to both establish a breakaway in the first place as well as to actually keep a chasing pack away, when a breakaway has already been established.
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I think a fundamental flaw, that Johannes gets at, is the collision mechanics. Once this is more grounded with auto braking and smarter algorithms that logically apply to a racer attacking or moving up in position, we will not expect significant change
You just cannot allow riders to phase through one another at-will
Couple that with gripes aplenty about draft savings, and I see the intricacy. Makes me think draft alogorithm plays a role into determining a group/grupetto speed. The focus needs to be at:
- Speed of riders at the front
- Smart collision features in the bunch, with draft purely being supplemental. I really hope the mechanics engine revolves around 3D vector space and not 2D. We need positional (left/right) lane selection(s) with cost of hitting wind if outside lanes of bunch
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Please do not falsely advertise PD 4.0 “slows the pack down.” It likely holds more merit in a reduced group
Yes, you’re right, these are the communication challenges we face where the balance between being accurate and not write a whole paragraph with technical terms can be tricky. I’m no expert on that matter but sometimes the nuances are either lost due to misunderstandings or removed for simplicity.
With that being said, the “slows the pack down”, should be replaced with “there’s a high probability of packs being slowed down, specially in races scenarios”.
So in some cases (lower probability) there’s even the chance of packs speed being increased, because increased power with increased draft = more speed.
It all depends on the will of the pack push the pace or not.
Time to create “Racing Bubble Dynamics 1.0”? 
Optional for race organizers, mandatory for Zwift’s own elite races.
Those all sounds great ideas, but quoting another reply I gave on another topic:
We need to find “realistic” solutions in our current situation for the resources available.
A quick explanation of each parameter from the list posted earlier would likely spark some ideas and enable us to better phrase our suggestions in a way that might be practical to implement on your end.
Thank you for the link and reflection! The current pack dynamics — CdA perspectives aside — are actually reasonable for groups under 10 riders. Certainly a better argument for 5 riders.
Assuming individual avatar speeds are ballpark (meaning close) to accurate IRL, I think the primary objective is to better instill the accordion effect. How realistic of progression and advancements can be made here? I do not know.
I can remark that a solo rider gapping the front can do so with relative ease — provided the instantaneous speed is not ridiculously high to start — assuming their power delta is offset high enough. (They can, of course, attack at a higher initial velocity, but don’t expect their potential acceleration to be as much as the former scenario.) The rider drafting just behind them needs to adapt their power input; the wattage delta being a function of initial velocity, length of gap, acceleration of the attack, to name a few variables. Those beside, who also hit the wind, need to yield similar power input to the attack IF their goal is to remain beside the lead rider while hitting the wind. However, they could also elect to draft the attack, playing into the aforementioned scenario.
With the above outlined example, it would line out the peloton if done either/or: persistently enough or with a high power attack. Those at the back can receive the greatest benefits of the draft at expense of deeper position and risk of gaps opening ahead of them, basically nullifying their desire for minimal work input. The nuance of this is the draft, and I do not know how it is accumulated in a mass blob on Zwift. My guess is: just like there is a seeming terminal velocity where attacking at (EDIT) sustained high power eventually becomes physiologically impossible, there are Zwift physics embedded where a threshold/ceiling draft savings is reached. IRL coasting in sizable enough bunch comes to mind here.
I can follow-up more on my primary objective of the accordion. One point being earlier iterations of PD4.0 remarked as an iTT, which is sort of true to IRL; just that the draft is there to tow you back assuming rapid power delta to bridge.
TL;DR I think you have to reward and penalize the positional element
I’m really struggling with the new PD4. I think I developed some habits with PD3 that are punished heavily now. What grinds my gears is when I get shoved to the side of the pack and lose draft. I used to sit up and ease off a bit to regroup behind the center of the pack and use the extra draft there to catch back up. Now I get double punished - autobraked while easing up and then autobraked when I hit the back of the pack. Also, once I catch onto the back, I then have to work really hard to move up. Especially if someone attacks and strings us out.
The crux of the issue is that I’m finding it really difficult to just hold in the center of the pack. I’m always getting squeezed to the curb and can’t get back in. Why does this happen so much?
Hopefully I can master the new PD with experience, but for now, I’m hurting and miss PD3.
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No. You don’t get auto braked when easing up except if you are going faster than the front guys.
So you don’t analyze well what happens to you.
What might be happening is that if you ease up as you did in pd3 when going to the head of the pack, you have to do it way before the front line, or you will get auto braked but very lightly, just not to get ahead.
So ease up before what you were used to, and don’t use big power corrections : irl you wouldn’t do that to adjust your speed.
BUT on key sections, don’t hesitate to accelerate frankly, to anticipate what others will do.
I have done quite a few race with pd4, it takes 3-5 races to change one’s habits, but now I almost never gat auto braked (one short flash yesterday on cobbles stage 2)
It is strange that you go from front to back and then up again.
I don’t see so many movements in the pack, and I don’t do that either.
You have to modulate your power with pd4, by small amounts. You can’t ride on/off.
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Nothing new about it, I got this all the time already with PD3 as well. (I found it frustrating enough that I basically stopped racing on Zwift altogether mainly because of it.)
I don’t know what was different today, but I went with Constance group (11 riders) on Tempus and ended up with 46.8km/h average speed.
Previously on Tempus in PD3 with Constance a very fast group (bigger than today) with people pushing at the front was 45.2km/h average with less average power needed.
So definitely not slower. And what I found frustrating today versus last week with PD4 (Constance group on tick tock) is that I seemed to get stuck behind riders at the back of the group and had to blast power to get around them in order to get near the robo pacer.
Whatever is different today, it wasn’t better - just non stop surges and sprinting or get dropped.
I’m not sure either, some possible variables at play…
- bigger crowds free riding in Tempus fugit that provide more draft = more speed
- somebody pushing the pace a bit more at the front of the group…?
I like your idea, and I hope I can experiment with it under some special event configuration like the suggested “Racing Bubble 1.0” I believe it will be too aggressive, but we’ll see…
I think the future of Pack Dynamics (5?) will go through the improvements around collision detection, but the big complexity there lies on how to deal with the collisions. We need to find some kind of penalty (in real life it’s crashing each other…), but without manual braking and steering being used by the vast majority, it will be a tough challenge…
Currently I will need to give attention to other on-going fires, so I hope to find the time for more experiments.
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Normally un that situation you are able to pass and almost immediately you start getting slower.