Perhaps I misunderestimated what you meant by “tip of the cone” as I assumed it meant the front of the group/peleton. If instead it means the tip of the cones of all riders in front of you then it would make more sense to me. (its also not clear how the draft from multiple riders is accumulated; presumably its nonlinearly decreasing on distance).
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Quick question, PD4 turns on Double Draft if I’m reading the previous comments correctly.
When I look at events I see some that have PD4 also have Double Draft enabled, and others don’t.
I’m presuming that this is not a problem. I.e. we won’t see a quadruple draft?
I tested yesterdey at EVR event that had also DD with PDv4 and there was no Quadruple draft and reported to @DavidP
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Thanks, I also did EVR yesterday, but don’t have enough experience with PD4 races to be 100% sure.
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Like many others, I came here to say that the new pack dynamics do not work as advertised, at least in A races. Drafting should be easier, full stop. But it isn’t. As several others have already said, they turn it into a time trial, with no chance to sit in and rest. Given the large numbers of triathletes on Zwift, I’m sure many people see this as a feature and not a bug, but I am looking for something that more closely resembles IRL racing. What I find to be classic Zwift is that they respond to everyone and then try to gaslight everyone and say that their experience is wrong and the new pack dynamics work. If numerous people are telling you the exact same thing and you are just ignoring us, then why even pretend that you want feedback from your customers if you are just going to ignore them?
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But…it’s not zwift gaslighting? It’s just other riders (I’m just some other rider) saying that … it seems fine? I know that A races add about 2-4kph to steady state cruise vs the C races I’m doing (based on mass start racing with front groups…) so maybe that’s enough to change how it has felt to me as I’ve done a few PD4 events now, but I’m not sure how it could?
Anyway, mostly just responding to the gaslighting assertion. This thread is full of mostly non-zwift folks going back and forth on it. Sounds like it’ll get a robopacer rollout soon anyway, where the A pacer can be checked at will
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Not to keep going in circles, but the reason races turn into “time trials” is the participants themselves go full gas (or nearly so) because the races are relatively short, and probably also because they don’t have to worry about crashing into riders in front of them. (The second probably qualifies as a “Zwift physics” problem, but I doubt it will ever be “fixed,” and I’m fine with that.)
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@Michael_Rosenthal i did today was Kiss race, what to me was funny, was guys attack on the down hill to get the supertuck, then jacking the speed higher, what would have been before in PD3.
As Supreme Chancellor of C group, i am okay were the PD4 is , they can push it Live as is now.
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Hi, how many races did you do with PDv4 that are over 20mins long?
I only see Tiny Races that are PDv4 on your profile which are full gas from the start and looking at riders Wkg with similar weight to your 70kg…i notice you are pushing 0.3 to 0.6Wkg more. Yes it is hard to move up in the Peleton and you have to use the course into your advantage to push when you can to get to the front but also you need to learn to relax in the draft if there is no way to move up. Would be really cool if we would have an indicator of wasted Watts.
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I think we can just leave it to the masses to tell if PD4 feels anything like IRL in race situations. Ship it! (and take cover). Pace partner rides doesn’t trigger all the dynamics happening in a race situation. PD4 has to work in all situations, from the 5-6km Tiny races to the 100km steady state group rides.
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Just raced the Restart race on Rolling Highlands, and I agree this is ready for release.
The race was largely similar to normal racing the first few laps, easy enough to sit in and move up but without the surging through to the front of PD3. The race is always going to be decided on the two hills, but on one lap a couple of guys got away, and before long had got 8-9 seconds. I considered mentioning on the chat at this point, “Er, you know we won’t just catch them automatically, right guys?” as not many seemed to know it was PD4 and the group seemed complacent, used to PD3 I guess!
Anyway, people worked out soon enough this gap was only going out and the chase started, taking most of a lap and making life pretty hard even in the wheels! This is ideal for exciting racing, and despite the fact that holding on to the group meant I was toast for the big digs up the climbs I’m still in favour of PD4 over the ‘sit on and sprint’ predictability of the current game.
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This!
Sit on and sprint is sooooo boring.
First IRL was this weekend, it was not sit on and sprint. It was in bits.
Basically 67 hill repeats, but not boring.
I can’t wait to see whether PD4 helps with large RP rides. I did one at the weekend with a huge bunch and it was a horrible experience full of surging, completely different to how that same RP normally feels with a small group.
It seems like PD4 could be a mere figment of our imagination.
Given all the community action has been taking place on Watopia (Tour Of, Fondos etc) I wonder why it’s still not been rolled-out on Makuri for the PP rides as promised?
You should go ride Makuri this week 
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Which group?
The groups on Volcano circuit are bad this week for surging.
The Genie group last week in Triple Flat loops also was very fast because there were many powerful riders in the group and uphills were mostly 6w/kg plus and people groups sprinting every lap.
I rode with Maria in Makuri on Tuesday. Didn’t notice any difference. Was PD4 enabled?
Bernie on Country to Coastal.
Try on a day after Wednesday.
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Today being Thursday, am I wrong in assuming I can jump on today and see what’s new? 