Pack Dynamics 4.1 - Test Events

If you can steer, you have the option to move to a more advantageous (or disadvantaged) position?

No steering, you are at the mercy of the AI?

To me, it’s seems a fairly obvious thought that being able to move the avatar is always going to provide an advantage over not being able to do it - But there seems to be a reticent to actually accept or admit this.

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Can you point me to such reports? I haven’t seen any.

I think it was on FB in which case I’ll never be able to find it due to poor search results.

not a problem if ur out in front i guess :smiley:
#LAUNCHIT

On the flip side, I’d suppose that same AI may move a non-steering rider into the spot you would like but can’t force yourself into.

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Pack Dynamics 4 Release [April 2023]

The test events are only scheduled for next Tuesday :thinking:

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If you are drafting, an increase in CdA doesn’t mean much (because there isn’t much air resistence to overcome). That’s why riders sit up and stretch in group.

I hope you are right, and I hope you’ve had small light riders testing this during development.

If I’ve put on the effort to gain speed the last thing I want is the software hitting the brakes on me or someone ahead learning loopholes to slow me down.

The power I have when I’m working is not as much as some huge rider who is just cruising along with 300 watts. My pushing 280-320w is me putting in an effort - I would hope this is understood and I don’t just end up with a wall in front of me.

The few times I’ve recently used steering the benefit is I can more easily overtake a group with the limited power I have.

Yes in real life. In Zwift with 1.5draft you still have to push 200w to stay in a group going fast downhill.

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Hi @DavidP

Can you please enable CE for the test events.

It’s already on for all 3 events Gerrie. I double checked.

Why do you think it isn’t?

Is this test for a brake or for a CdA/draft penalty?

I just tried to enter from the website and it was open for all categories. I did not check the companion app.
Interestingly checking now from my PC browser it is CE.

I assume I was wrong then.
Thanks @James_Zwift for checking.

I’ve seen this happen before but it doesn’t lket you actually join a category that you shouldn’t able to.

Just checked web version just now and it’s only showing me C to A.

Comparing to last 10s power is a mistake and limits the duration you can get it. Consider comparing against zFTP instead. If you’re attacking and holding 110% of FTP steadily you’ll only get the benefit for a few seconds even if you attack for a minute or two. Sprint to get away and then settle in well above FTP? No benefit after the first couple second sprint.

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I’m not sure why your cda needs to increase in the pack, and sitting up… but it sounds correct at the right speeds . That said If you limited the front of the pointy end of the peloton and had a more realistic irl dynamic there you could conceivably keep the pack dynamic / draft in the peloton similar to what it is now.

Most zwift races are crit distances and times. I can’t think of a time where I’m not in the most aero position unless the front end of the pack has slowed , when it’s on it’s on I’m in the drops, as aero as possible ready to respond. Uphill is a different beast so one could argue you’d need two teams to explore climbs under 2mins and over 2min

Lastly , to make this realistic any break from the main peloton should at the very least have an optimal cda, with cda not being affected by being in the draft … all riders not just the lead. I say this and ask when do you see a break in a crit style race sitting up ? Or in a long event ? The break is heads down, in the drops. By giving breaks a cda similar to irl - as aero as possible (same for ttt) you will encourage positive racing and can still have a overall good draft effect in the main pack. When the chase is on - 4-6 riders matching the break watt for watt then their cda becomes equal and to bring them back it comes down to team work … Essentially reduce the churn at the front by ensuring the rider leading the peloton is the one affecting the overall peloton speed not the dude churning through. My suggestion is enable a widget or icon that indicated optimal cda achieved and / or total draft being used …

Good luck and thanks for yours and the teams effort to make this better .

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My concern with making harder to pass “not drafting” riders would be that it might make it easier to get dropped (or harder to get back on) at the back of the pack

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I think the word harder is a bit misleading.

It seems like it will now act like IRL. If you want to pass someone you will go to the side and will be in the wind so you will need to increase your power to overcome the wind.

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This is all sounds great David. Don’t worry about the naysayers.

Not sure how or why people are complaining before a single test event has been run.

Not sure people understand cda as shown on the other discussions but this sounds like the correct solution. Of course in the pack cda should go up as you have large draft and are sitting up just like IRL and net still fast for minimal effort. But when attacking IRL you assume a more aero position so your cda should decrease.

Keep up the good work. A was

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