Just as Paul is saying: every rider flying off purposely, will be dragging some unaware riders with them. This will trim the total groupsize down around Yellow, demoralizing those who do put down the effort to stay in the blob.
For lots of people, especially in the “lower regions” of the Zwift community, riding within a group is a big part of their Zwift-experience. Unable to hold the group because it all splits and thus riding full efforts @20sec behind the blob can have a huge effect on their engagement with Zwift.
If you do want to ride at your own pace, unaffected by other riders around you, why bother signing up to a groupride?
However, going back to OP’s original comments – about how well should it be expected that a group ride with 280 participants is going to be able all hang out with the Yellow beacon, on a 100km ride, with an advertised range of 2.0-2.5wkg (vs. mentioning a single wattage expectation)?
Good point John, seems people are missing the entire point here… the OP was at the advertised pace, and even slowed down to regroup, but at that point 240 other riders were already “off the front”. What was the leader doing at the very back of a very large group? Something either went horribly wrong, the pace was not specific enough, or the leader wasn’t doing a very good job leading the group.
This actually happens a lot with leaders I have experienced it many times. The group keep accelerating and the leader try to slow down to keep to the recommended pace and suddenly the leader is not in any draft and the main pack keep going and the gap extend. Then you get 2 bunches riding at the same w/kg but different speeds because the leader is in the small group.
The point is this: the advertised pace is a range in which the “avarage” power of the groupride should be. I don’t think it should be used as right to fly off just because you ride the advertised pace. Sometimes, in order to stay together, some people need to back off and others need to push a bit. As a sweeper I regularly tell people to push back to Yellow, in order to not split the group (and thus the draft).
I do think the OP was doing the right thing: she backed off the power to get back te yellow after drifting off in front. She shouldn’t be harassed for it, nor should people in the chat ever revert to foul talk. The ride leader probably should have pointed that out instead of joining in.
Unwillingly flying off in front for a while shouldn’t be any reason for hostility (in fact, nothing should), as long as you drop back as soon as the ride leader asks you to. But some suggest here it shouldn’t be a problem flying off and just minding their own business in front, that I want to address because it can affect many riders within this community in a negative way.
I agree with you, but the leader wasn’t using the fence from what I can tell and then only threatened to turn it on after they were all the way in the back after 20 minutes… sounds like a combination of poor leadership and poor setting of expectations to me.
Is there really that much of a negative impact to many riders’ experience if an enormous groups splits to multiple smaller groups? That is, comparing an experience of riding within 1 of 10 groups of 28 riders (280 total), vs. 1 of 4 groups of 70 riders (280 total), or 1 huge blob of 280 riders, etc.
I think this is kind of where I stand on this situation. Admittedly, I don’t recall if the description said as much, but a few people in the group did come to my defense, mentioning that people in these large group rides frequently settle into subgroups. There is a difference to me between a one-hour group ride and something that may take north of 2.5 hours.
During the Festive 500, longer rides, especially that 100K sweet spot, are in high demand. When only one category is offered in that 2.5 WKG range, and you see hundreds of people signed up, there is sort of a default mindset that subgroups will settle, but nearly everyone will likely land in a healthy-sized group. A group of 30 that’s a much different story.
Trying to appeal to nearly 300 people without a fence to stay together, mind you, global riders that speak different languages and may or may not be inclined to use chat, is definitely a tall ask. Fences are definitely an option (I don’t know if I would recommend it in this particular case), but they get a little sketchy if the ride leader doesn’t give a long enough leash. I have seen ride leaders with 200+ riders put up a 10m fence and there are almost always 30+ riders in front of it because the pack dynamics unwittingly throw people in front of it. 200+ people cannot occupy the space directly around the beacon.
It comes back to not being an exact science. Good ride organizers must be cognizant of these things and manage their rides accordingly. If you are going to put a 100K ride up during the festive 500 at prime time on an observed holiday, maybe offer a few options or be accepting of the fact that subgroups will form.
Castigating good faith riders attempting to communicate should never be a solution, not by a ride leader nor by the group members. Today’s social media culture has made people too brazen and too likely to pile on. I suggest people treat others as if they were on a group ride with them on the real road. Pretty sure those conversations would have been MUCH different.
Deleted prior reply as I accidentally replied to myself instead of to John
And yet a couple hundred people have no problem staying in a group with one of the pace partners with the incentive of a drops multiplier.
I’ve lead rides for three teams and Zwift Academy over the years and find it quite frustrating to see your ride pulled apart by fliers.
Fortunately there are the dedicated ride leaders that don’t let this bother them and continue to give up their time for the cause.
The problem with fliers in a group ride is that they drag along others that normally would have stayed with the main group. It’s disrespectful to a ride leader who’s volunteering their time and energy trying to keep the group together.
I don’t know that you can fairly call 200 riders holding advertised pace “fliers.” There may have been some folks at the front who broke off that could not be seen, but I was at position 120 with a huge group in front and behind me. Two-thirds or more of the group cannot be accurately termed “fliers.” They were not accelerating. Breaks formed on the descent, and because you could only see the nearest 100 riders, it took some time for people to become aware.
Yeah, that’s sorta where I’m landing on this, let those people go off the front and just let them go… there are usually a few that do that so they can go ride off the front together… It doesn’t’ matter as long as the ride leaders are keeping the pace as advertised and sweeps are doing their important work to look after those that are struggling.
I’ve been in group rides where there’s a constant harping by the ride leader for people to stay together, I found it incredibly irritating and have not joined any of those rides since. It pretty much kills any inter ride chatter as well. But that’s me, if others prefer that and hard fences then that’s great, as long as they’re riding and enjoying the experience.
That’s why the fence is so nice you turn it on and those that want to ride at a faster pace are more than welcome, they won’t pull people with them that don’t want to go and the leader never have to ask people to stay together.
On 100k rides without a fence those that break off the front usually don’t last more than 30-60 minutes.
over the last 3 years or so there are a few rides i consistently avoid joining because i dont want to feel like i’m being indirectly yelled at by a drill sergeant for 2 hrs (sounds sort of like your experience. i think it’s unfathomably grating too) or some where i dont feel like i’d fit in socially. it’s not really that they’re bad rides or even led poorly, they just aren’t for me. so it’s just a case of finding ones you do enjoy. different rides, different cultures
There are people who push the pace there too. Even big groups form away from the pace partner so drops multiplier doesn’t have a lot of use when some people have 20,000,000+ drops.
In Sarah’s description of what happened, the level of abuse from the leader and the group seems way over the top. Imagine the effect on new riders who may join a ride like that - either being on the receiving end of the abuse or seeing the culture at work and thinking it’s normal. Some gentle pleading for more blobbing and less flying is fine, but calling out and haranguing individuals should not happen. Long before a leader contemplates orchestrating that, they should just start the ride with a fence.
There has been talk of integrating public reviews for rides, but to me it seems more important to offer easier ways to give feedback to organizers about a bad ride (they may be unaware of the leader’s behavior and agree it’s wrong). Every event in the game should provide a way to contact the organizer.
No one is forced to participate in a group ride. But riding together should be a nice thing to do. There are several options if you are only annoyed by the participation. 1) You can leave the event. 2) ride with a Pace-partner. 3) turn off the messages and choose the No-hud option. 4) choose another group ride. Or get annoyed all the time. Don’t forget: Leaders aren’t employees or servants - they’re just real people with all that that entails.