Tonight’s ride worked fine, i did feel i had to ease up a bit more on the descents than i might of expected but in no way would i describe it as bad.
So in my tests ZWIFT is 1/1 .
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My ride last night was OK, so we will see if it was an unlucky one off but regarding yours - a surge on the flat of plus 1 W/kg surely that’s too much. That to me blows the idea of a “steady” ride. Can I ask Marco what trainer you use and have you put the log in zwiftalizer if you do this you can share here like I did. It may show something.
Just wondering; is the HoloReplay activated for Pace Partner rides?
Could this be contributing to the pack surge on/near timed segments?
It is activated.
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Yep, I’ve seen the same and commented on it. Apparently it’s working as planned 
Yes agree, thought as much when I rode with PP on a sprinters course in Neokyo. I’m sure everyone is surging to beat their HoloReplay. I ended up doing this so expect others were as well.
But this is the pack accelerating not the Pace Partner, the PP keep the same power on the flat road even if the pack goes faster, so if you ride next to the PP you can keep your power constant same as the PP and stay with the PP.
The robopacer does not adapt to the changes in speed. The only time the pacer increase power is when going up a climb.
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Can you link the strava ride.
The PPs don’t get pulled along in a draft? If they are going by wattage, and they are affected by draft, that would increase their speed. If they’re going by speed, then they of course would auto-adjust. And if it’s a mix (both wattage and speed limits high and low for example), they’d adapt as well. I guess I had gathered from reading that they were governed primarily by wattage, and that they themselves were affected by drafting. And that the combo would mean that the pack can to some extent pull them to faster paces. Is that not accurate?
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They can go faster if there is more draft that is correct but it also hold true for every rider next to or around the Robo partner.
Yes they are riding at a prescribed wattage, and yes they go faster in a big group just like when we ride in a big group vs no group.
Cool, that’s what I thought. I just got confused–when I read Marco’s post about the PP ‘adapting to the pace of the bunch’, that’s how I had read it. That riders getting in front of the PP and increasing the pace will to some extent speed the PP up. The PP isn’t adapting by increasing wattage, but its speed will increase over what someone might expect. I think that’s the key sometimes–people read that the PP is going to be riding at a certain w/kg, and they don’t take into account that the PP can get pulled along just like anyone else. Thanks for the clarification, glad it’s working like I thought it was 
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But even if the PP get pulled along the w/kg still stay the same and the rider will also get pulled along.
This is why rides are not listed as a certain speed but rather power.
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Right, I’m with you But if someone isn’t putting that together, and gets dropped off the back, that might explain them complaining that they had to do X watts to try to get back to the group when the PP is ‘supposed to be’ riding at Y watts.
There might not be a universal understanding that ‘riding with’ a certain PP means you might have to be in the bunch the whole time. Someone might think if they’re just off the back that they’re still ‘riding with’ the PP, but of course that’s going to be a whole different experience, much harder.
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That is just general Cycling knowledge, falling out of the draft always lead to a huge effort to get back to the bunch.
For sure. But I think a lot of people might be coming to Zwift without a lot of experience IRL in bunches. Pretty much every triathlete I know, for example (and I know quite a few), has not ridden at pace in a bunch. And more casual cyclists I suspect would be in the same boat. It’s one thing to know that’s true, and another to experience it, and to experience just how much harder it is. Riding with two or three others, single-file, even at pace, is not the same thing.
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Yes but that is something people learn by riding with groups. But more importantly that is what they learn by doing group rides where leader will communicate.
I have led a fair number of group rides over the years and have seen many new rider learning pack dynamics. It does take time and someone to guide you.
But since PP got introduced the Group rides has become smaller and less frequent.
Maybe I am wrong but that is not my experience. Zwift’s drafting mechanics are whack. There are lots of times in PP rides where the PP is surging forward while I am right along his side and I have to dramatically increase my power to keep up. It is like Zwift decides the person right next to you gets the draft benefit while you do not. It seems to really be evident when a group blows by you on a descent.
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That is normal even IRL. If a group catch you it mean they are moving at higher speed, so for you to latch on to them you will need to accelerate to the speed that they are doing before the last person in the bunch pass you. And on a downhill you probably don’t have the gears to put down 800w so that you can accelerate fast enough.
This will be good if someone can record this for further investigation.
For sure. I’m just thinking of reasons why people–particularly people new to bunch riding–might experience what seems to be PP wattage issues that might be explained by general properties of bunch riding that they aren’t (yet) familiar with.
I mean, IRL I’ve known plenty of people who, when dropped and can’t get back, blame their own lack of power. Or they blame the group for ‘attacking’ and riding away.
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I’ve seen someone mention that the draft benefit is much lower if you are to the side of the bunch. They are able to see this with the Sauce for Zwift add on. Maybe that is what you are also experiencing?