You’re correct, I was just stating that there are people who, absolutely, want these values displayed. I think that just opens up another can of worms.
I think your idea of a numbered scale sounds good. Or, until a results-based system is introduced, maybe just broaden the categories (but not display the CE data that defines them) e.g. sub-divide the current cats into a + and - similar to the split-cat systems used by some race organizers.
I think that’s good logic, but they would need to have two scores minimum - one for CP, one for ZMAP - and if you are doing that anyway, why not surface the w/kg value for each anyway?
Could not the combination of CP and MAP be translated to a single point on the spectrum. Pretending that scale is 1-50 with arbitrary/default Cats something like:
A = 43-50
B = 31-42
C = 16-30
D = 1-15
With combo of CP and MAP, in the old lingo, isn’t there a way to translate a “C Almost B” from looking at CP and MAP in combo, etc? In this number system that might be a person with a rating of 28-30?
The question weight changes is pretty tricky, really. Whether it’s people losing lots of initial weight for any given reason or people sharing accounts within their household, there are a lot of reasons we had identified that people would struggle with having weight changes be locked down.
That isn’t to say it’s not a problem, though, and I agree that we still have to address that when it comes to racing. Ideally, I’d like to see something like ZwiftPower does when your weight is egregious but before the event as well as after. Perhaps it would be something like disallowing Zwifters with weight changes over a given threshold in a 7 or 14 or 30 day period from simply joining races where the feature is on.
It’s something I hope we can get to one day, and which isn’t the immediate focus for now. We’ll always have gains to make, we can just make larger gains with more substantial moves like hardware restriction, etc.
Will this limit type of trainer or just z-power versus power meter?
Kind of… We won’t have it be X brand with X brand, i.e. “KICKR only races” but we also won’t allow those “power meter” bikes that are, as you say, a bingo machine throwing around numbers.
As a practical example, you could expect in a power meter only race to be racing with folks on a Tacx trainer, Assioma pedals, a Quarq, and an SRM. You would not be racing with people that are something like a Schwinn IC8 bike or a set of rollers with a Garmin speed sensor as their only paired device. Those folks would be in the other group.
There will also be an element of heart rate requirement if desired. So initially we’re shooting for these configurations available in events:
Are Zpower uses still a ‘major’ group of users of zwift? Like you say 4 years ago they might have been, things have moved forward.
Yes, things have moved forward quite a bit. However, there are still quite a lot of folks that either cannot or haven’t yet spent the money for a power meter or a mid to high end smart trainer. We’re not looking to inadvertently punish those folks any more than we already do. From my point of view, we say that Zwift is easy for anyone to use with any hardware, but it’s really designed with a smart trainer in mind.
At this moment, regardless of zPower users making up X% of all Zwifters relative to smart trainer users, I believe it’s a better value to help people have a better race experience regardless of what they can afford or are willing to buy. Honestly, I just want more people like you lot here that have tried racing and had that “a-ha” moment that gets the hook in them to become long time racers; on Zwift or otherwise.
Hopefully that helps clarify a little bit.
I was not aware that account sharing was within the terms and conditions. That surely complicates things.
What role does it matter what hardware we use if we can change our weights as we like? 3% or 7% accuracy doesn’t matter if I can set my weight up and down 20 kg with no consequences.
People lying about their weight is fine as long as they keep it stable or change it in a way that is realistic. I have no way of knowing what their actual weight is, but I can see that a rider is trying to cheat if he changes weight 10kg overnight.
IMO this should be tackled before hardware restrictions, but there might be something I have overlooked.
I think it’s just an error, D should be “or” instead of “and”.
Account sharing isn’t in TOS, but we don’t have a way around it so people do it anyway.
So it is kind of OK. That is too bad. It would make weight change restrictions much easier.
I bet if you offered a family plan this would not be as much of an issue… but I’m sure you already know that…
That is actually #2 of most voted feature requests. #1 is in progress, so one would expect it to be implemented zoon if votes matter.
i know you understand perfectly well the pace at which zwift adds or incorporates new elements into the game and their website, so please do not under any circumstances encourage the staff to delete zwiftpower for at least another two decades
[quote=“Anna Ronkainen [AEO], post:27, topic:585383, full:true, username:Anna_Ronkainen”]
I think it’s just an error, D should be “or” instead of “and”.
[/quote]
[quote=“Anna Ronkainen [AEO], post:27, topic:585383, full:true, username:Anna_Ronkainen”]
I think it’s just an error, D should be “or” instead of “and”.
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hope so.
What happens if my category changes after I sign up for the event? Exclusion? Disqualified?
Depends on the Zwiftpower event setup but most likely nothing will happen…if there is a weekly series you will not be able to enter the same category. But the problem is if you are upgraded after you register for the event…you are not moved to the higher Pen.
Thank you. If nothing happens, I have no problem.
I think the issue identified was that it was very easy to manipulate your category from one day to the next with small weight changes as CE is all based on previous Power and not w/kg. Simple solution would be after upgrade in CE you are locked at that category for a period of time so that you can’t just add a few kilo on to get downgraded the next day.
Exactly what @Gordon_Rhino-Racing says. Setup as is does not work. Store and lock category.
I’m getting the impression though that Zwift purposely does not want to show the CP/VO2/MAP etc values for everyone. Hence lots of posts just suggesting that it should be good enough to just see what Cat in a race you can enter.
Of course it would be a mystery and a measure of uncertainty when custom Cat boundaries come about, and more than a bit clunky to have to publish a custom one of the below charts in each of these race listings? Hence a custom derived simple scale, that allows everyone to have a relativistic view of where they reside on the ability spectrum, and simple for event organizers to setup and describe.
I must admit that I don’t have much experience with custom-cat races on Zwift, so I’ve no idea how complex these are relative to the standard ZP cats. However, I’m really enjoying the split-cat format of TFC’s Mad Monday series where the current (broad) ZP cats are basically split into two (e.g. C-, C+, B-, B+ etc.).
Wouldn’t it suffice for Zwift to do something similar? Surely sub-dividing the current cats would work for most races? They could then simply publish your “historic” FTP-based cat alongside your new CE cat on, say, your Zwift Power & Companion app rider profile.
