Anyone over X zFTP or y/wkg gets automatically put on a gravel bike. Simple
And shows why creating categories purely from power numbers is never going to work as well as a results-based system.
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Thanks for the complete answer. But don’t you believe that it will mainlly attract top A racers ? We are all differents, but earning drops isn’t a source of motivation for me (unless, as you suggest we can use them in an interesting way). But, as a “weak” A, I feel I will never earn any drop since I usually finish my races at the botom of the ranking 
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Out of the subject of the topic, but do you ride IRL with your teammate ? My profil is similar to yours. It appears that on international triathlon I usually obtain the top 1-5 best time on the bike in my age group (+50). There are some ex pro bikers who are still very fit (like Laurent Jalabert who use to be ranked 1st on the pro ranking). Anyway their numbers are much, much lower than your teammate. With a such level at 50+, 25 years ago he would have win the Tour de France 10mn before Lance Amstrong (and its dopping product). 
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Yes, that could be a problem, but I think there are ways to make all motivated regardless of level within the category:
- Tiered rewards within categories ensure racers at all skill levels can earn drops.
- For example, the top 20% of finishers in the category can earn a higher amount of drops, while the next 30% earn a slightly lower amount, and so on.
- Participation rewards encourage consistent engagement, regardless of the finishing position.
- Personal best and improvement rewards incentivize racers to focus on their progress.
- Valuable uses for drops will keep racers motivated to accumulate them.
No he’s on the other side of the country; but… a few other teammates have had the opportunity to ride (and hike) with him!
I’m fairly certain I would bore him though at Z1 while me dying behind my stem even for a light cruise LOL
Completely agree.
Although it’s possible that A is already a bit of a ghost town because people like me understand that we at any given moment might be put against people that could indeed be current or former elites and pros; and thus don’t sign up.
This teammate mostly sticks to tough group rides that the team puts on, and larger race series, and things like the WTRL TTT.
“Common” Zwift races are definitely not a real good place for the average tier A racer; and again like in my case, I don’t plan to do many generic Zwift races and thus “being part of the issue,” because I know I can be pitted against people I have no chance in racing with.
Through the summer months, up until I lose my Cat A title (because I know I cannot for the life of me hold me winter power numbers when the temps go up; that’s already hitting me enough this week), I don’t plan to do any A races, purely because once I get dropped, which could be as soon as the first 10 minutes… I have no reason to push, and thus, the ride can either turn into a cruise, or an iTT.
At which point… why not just… have signed up for a cruise and enjoy the ride, or do an iTT / climb to test myself instead…
I’m going to say, at least in my perspective, this is why A is a bit of a ghost town. Folks don’t necessarily want to sign up because they know they might run into a non-competitor, and then what’s supposed to be Vo2 race efforts, even if “as a workout,” can’t even be that because you get dropped.
I may or may not do races once I fall back into B; guess that’ll depend on the week and how I feel personally; but, as a matter of perspective, it probably gives some insight.
I race for the workout… if a workout can’t be guaranteed…?
Then I won’t race.
To fix this issue, I have an idea to make A1(A+) and A2 sub-categories in A category and together with a handicap system.
This is how it will work:
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A category will be split into two sub-categories: A1 and A2. The split will use the same metrics as the current category system.
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In races with both A1 and A2 riders, a handicap system will be used to give A2 riders a head start. The head start will be decided by looking at the average performance difference between A1 and A2 riders.
We use 5min gaps, but that format for Herd Summer Racing. It’s points racing, I know not everyone loves them, but fastest through segment points, so you can still place in a sprint after being dropped.
The expectation is that some of the higher categories come through the lower. It’s part of the format, you’re absolutely expected to race together, but are not scored together.
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Hi guys,
Just wanted to share how lonely I feel recently. I started Zwift in november 2023 and have been loving it. I started as a D rider.
Fast forward several months and 8000 kilometers later, I improved from D to C, C to B and finally B to A (during a ZRL season so I couldn’t play the final…)
I thought it was a good thing but here I am : I can’t find a single interesting race. I’m locked in A category. At best there are 3 to 5 others participants, most of the time 1 or 0.
It really looks like I’m just doing a time trial at this point.
Meanwhile in group ride I see many B probably better than me and I can see daily races with > 30 people in B’s…
Probably has to do something with summer season and price update but yeah I feel punished and Zwift is becoming very boring recently as a low A.
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So as Zwift do a ELO systems for racing its going to be lonely sorry
Yeah, it’s unfortunate. You’ll need to look at races where all cats are visible, or other formats that allow you to be with other folks. Zwift should look into a bunch of options outside of their current strict A/B/C/D w/kg categories. We do know they are working on race ranking which should help, but that is taking forever to release.
Check the signups for this coming Saturday’s Tiny Races. Quartet of races at 1000; 1600 and 2200 BST.
Eric is using VO2 for pen allocation instead of the standard Category Enforcement.
I suspect it will change the relative numbers in each of the five pens, with A having more racers.
Pen E might be a bit smaller than D has been in previous weeks for Tiny Races, but we will see. At least the range of ability will be smaller, with approx 3W/Kg for 5mins being the top end of the pen (instead of 3.2 for 6mins). Plus high W/Kg lightweights won’t have minimum pure Watts protection.
Thank you for all your suggestions. I really appreciate it.
There are some suggestions for how to find appropriate events in the thread below. You are 100% correct that this is a problem and it’s not your fault, but with some extra effort you can probably find some options.
Maybe you fault too lol you have to much power please share it haha
can you spot any issues with the cats?
- E: 0-40
- D: >40-48
- C: >48-56
- B: >56-63
- A: >63
i am D in there rank ? @Rich
Nothing obvious jumps out, but if it’s pen ranges, there’s nothing stopping Eric from tweaking them week to week if signups aren’t nicely split between the five pens.
The actual numbers don’t mean a lot to me. According to Intervals site, my VO2 is sub 40 (~2.6W/Kg for 5mins), it was closer to 45 on a very good day before my mystery 5-week lurgy that began in mid March.
Before my long covid began following a positive in late September '22, my VO2 best was apparently 55.9 after ~4.4W/Kg for 5mins (which would put me at top end of C). Maybe above average for someone 48 at the time, but very mediocre compared to the likes of Andrew Feather able to do ~7W/Kg for more like 6mins+ at the UK hill climb champs.
Pen E will be missing the top CE pen D adults and the high W/Kg lightweight juniors with a zFTP under 150W.
Maybe the guy signed up for E cat with 20mins at 318W (2.8 W/kg) and 15 sec at 1,103W (9.6 W/kg)?
Good luck with that E cat racers.
Not surprising that a particularly heavy rider gets put into a lower category. Zwift estimates VO2max from power and weight, so it’s essentially still a w/kg based system.
The advantage here is that it used 5-6 minute power, which lines up better with the necessary power profile to succeed in tiny races, and that there are 5 groups instead of 4 so the boundaries shuffle a bit.
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