Cap at 2000W?

I see. For most of what I’m doing 2 or 3% is fine but if it’s in the region of 10% then I can’t get a good idea of FTP say.

I think what people mean by “accurate” might be from the demands of pro outdoor cycling when even on the same stage of a race external temperature can change a lot. So you can be up in the mountains and then in a much warmer place during the same day. Factoring that in to a power meter could be difficult, I can see that. Infact that might be the main reason why it’s so hard to engineer because nobody is really just making power meters for indoor cycling?

Also with quite a bit of it involving sprinting or quick bursts, then to measure accurately over very short time periods big changes in force, that also is very difficult where the meter has to be very sensitive otherwise the sprint power curves will be off.

Its a shame there’s no real way of checking with virtual racing because it’s a great thing to be able to take part in as not everyone can go and do real races. Hard to police it. I saw someone the other day going up the Alpe in Zwift like they were on a motorbike

Keep in mind that it could be 1% when you’re at a certain power level or a certain cadence or a certain resistance, and then 15% off at some other power level or cadence or resistance. You are right that very short intervals can also expose accuracy issues that are not apparent at steady power levels. The point of spin bikes is not to give you accurate power. It’s just that it works at all and you can have a nice time riding indoors, and many of them are OK for that purpose. There are plenty of people happily riding them. Those are not products for people who care about power accuracy.

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Yes they are, they’re called smart trainers and many companies are focused on indoor only.

all this: And no mention of accuracy, I would guess 10% if you are lucky.

Sorry I mean the ones that go on the pedals? There aren’t any that have been made just to stick on indoor bikes?

As long as the bike has 9/16" pedal threading, all power meter pedals will work the same indoors and out. Some of the very cheapest indoor bikes use 1/2" threading but anything with aluminum crank arms should be 9/16"

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With the smart trainers, assuming that the power meter is inside the thing ( i.e. not using pedal meters ) how do you factor in how much grease / dirt is on the cogs/chain slowing it up?

there is always going to be some power loss due to drive train, it is up to the user to mitigate this. I think you’ve discovered that this isn’t a perfect situation, there are many variables and nothing is 100% accurate.

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i can’t remember off the top of my head but i think it’s around 3-4% loss for a clean and well maintained drivetrain. on the lower end if you go crazy with those huge jockey wheels, which are close to useless outdoors but possibly useful indoors, silca wax etc. if it’s poorly maintained, probably you might lose a few percent more if you use sand for lubricant and your chain is half a decade old

some trainer manufacturers, including the more reputable brands out there, calibrate their stuff from factory to account for that loss. not sure how i feel about personally that but then again i do own one of those models so i am not touching that hornet’s nest. if you take the measurement from the cranks or the pedals you don’t have to worry about that, plus you can actually take those power meters outside.

if i’m recommending equipment to someone who rides outside and is a keen rider, buy an outdoor power meter first that you can use indoors when necessary, and a smart trainer second

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Well you don’t but the bicycle chain is one of the most efficient things humans have ever invented

And if you do stuff to make your power lower no one really cares. Mostly indoors your chain isn’t getting dirty and a dirty drive chain is wearing stuff out more than drastically making it less efficient. Even lubrication doesn’t vastly affect the efficiency. I mean maybe Bradley Wiggins for his hour record paid a lot of money on special chains and waxing to get 3w or something but there’s a lot of people kidding themselves performing chain cleaning rituals.

Mostly all anyone else cares about is if you’re racing and your power is higher than it should be - and even then it’s not every race or event. If you can coat your chain in dirt and make it more efficient then perhaps they’d start asking for photos of clean chains next to a copy of today’s newspaper.

It’s your money but it really makes little sense imo to buy power meter pedals to measure how accurate a £400 spin bike is. The pedals would cost more.

Not the least because the way you suggested you would have to spend £3000 on a smart bike implies you don’t have a bicycle? If you don’t have a bicycle why buy power meter pedals?

If you had a bicycle you could put that on a trainer that costs £250-600 depending on make, model and features. That would probably be a better fit with zwift than the fr30.

If you don’t have a bike the options are more expensive for zwift perhaps than spin bikes, but zwift ride + kickr core is £1200 - albeit ties you into zwift platform.

There are a couple of expensive options like the tacx neo smart bike or wattbike atom around £2k and above that you’re just throwing money away imo.

But, there are not many use cases on zwift where the accuracy of your power matters that much. It’s not going to have a huge impact on how fit you get. In fact power meters haven’t really been a thing for that long, especially not as affordable things that keen cyclists had.

What is more important in buying decision is how much time and money you want to invest into indoor cycling vs outdoor and that perhaps is the best way to think about what to purchase for zwift.

If I didn’t have a garage with 2 road bikes in it already, I would have got a wattbike atom. As it is I got a kickr core and put my road bike on it. The road bike has a power meter but I haven’t even bothered putting a battery in it to see if they match because loads of other people already have.

But if I’d had a spin bike that connected to zwift I would have probably used that for a while - just like I had a wahoo kickr snap that I used for years and before that (and before zwift) I had a dumb trainer that I used for years. None of these things has affected how fit I got. In fact I was far more fit when I rode the dumb trainer and had a hybrid than I am now with a kickr core and a di2 carbon bike - albeit it was perhaps slightly less easy to measure that because power meters weren’t a thing. Might could just flash up ‘you suck’ these days.

I wonder which of the 39 resistance level he was in while doing the 2000 watts? How much more headroom to improve further?

I’m looking at smashing 2500.

Hehe yeah. All this I’m having to consider. The 2000W or accuracy over a short period of time isn’t important to me.I can imagine it’s as much as 100% inaccurate over short time spans.

To get an idea of power at steady state cycling or say doing FTP tests, which matters somewhat to me, I was trying to figure out whether it’s around ±10% like some people have suggested which then means looking at some of these other bikes that have been mentioned. Up to 3% off is acceptable for where I’m at.

I don’t have a real bicycle so I’m not looking to buy a trainer but that could change. The power meter I could use once and then sell for slightly less so maybe the test would then prove economical. Thanks

Oh, I had assumed you would have another bike to leverage the power meter in case you found your exercise bike to be “good enough”.

But if you do not, then it’s possible you don’t have clipless shoes too? If you get power meter pedals you’re also going to need cycling shoes and cleats that fit those pedals, and if you don’t have those at the moment then the cost will be more than just the pedals. Not sure if there’s a better option there for you, but I assume you won’t be able to fit a crank based power meter on what likely is a custom style crank on those bikes.

So, it’s really too bad you don’t know someone who has a different trainer to simply try out and get a feel. It’s possible for your purposes the best thing is to just use this bike as is, and forget about specific accuracy etc… Until which time you decide to upgrade it for a trainer setup or a higher end smartbike setup.

Probably ask my cousin if I can have a go on his 12 grand bike occasionally or get back into running the way this is looking lol

Well, you can still get great workouts, and have a great time on Zwift with the bike you have even if you’re not sure on the power tolerances. If your workouts feel at about the right level, then the specific numbers don’t matter as long as you’re getting the exercise and experience you’re interested in.

Group rides, group workouts, free-riding new routes, pace partners, etc… folks won’t care if your trainer is off 10% or more in any of those cases. Even for racing if your bike is consistent you’ll at least be put in the right category and challenge yourself all the time. That said if you win all your races with 2000W sprints that is going to get noticed :slight_smile: But for most other things the main thing is consistency in riding will get you stronger on the bike even if the power meter power can’t be completely trusted to be accurate.

Edit: If the 12 grand bike has a power meter you can do a long hard effort and see if you can match that in Zwift with your bike to get a sense if it’s ‘about the same’ to you.

If your cousin has a £12k bike he probably has several others as well ?

Does he have a smart trainer you can try with your Zwift account?

Is he on Zwift or another training app?

In answer to your very first post question I have a feeling that 2000w might be the Zwift cap. I believe I have seen it posted elsewhere (I may be wrong). I believe you will only accidentally ‘spike’ 2000w and that it is not something you can generally bring about intentionally. IMO If anything spin bikes are fairly well known for not generating a massive sprint power but I may well be wrong.

Continue to enjoy Zwift on whatever equipment you are lucky enough to obtain.

confirmed (not personally by me but by someone i know who can genuinely hit it ). ironically it led to a funny scenario once where i beat him in a sprint by a fraction of a second, because he couldn’t hit the actual numbers he was capable of

Long story short:

Your trainer is not capable of transmitting real power measurements and is therefore not to be trusted in this category.

Please don’t participate in Zwift races.

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Thanks. I love Zwift. I’m ok with not being able to race.