This is exactly what I am gonna do, thanks.
I ended up reading the patent application for virtual shifting.
I don’t think it was ever intended for racing, but more of a way to get a universal approach to different bikes on a trainer without worrying about cassette and drive train.
Virtual shifting has been in use for a while on smart bikes, but a lot of those are belt driven and have fixed ratio.
Virtual shifting on a trainer has far too many unknowns. As I posted in the other thread, one user might be riding 60t x 11t combo and another user might be in 32t x 50t.
That means for the same power, at the same virtual gear, at the same cadence (say 90rpm), the manufacturer has to deal with one scenario where the pulley wheel is spinning at 490rpm, and another one where the pulley wheel is spinning at 54 rpm!!
I use VS in Zwift, but mechanical shifting in IndieVelo. If VS was banned from top racing, I think I would stop using it. Its most useful for shifting under heavy load.
You should just ride the Afsluitdijk 
I invested in the Zwift Ride so am stuck with virtual shifting.
I actually like it, but i have never actually used a smarttrainer without VS
You probably need to consider adjusting your riding style to fit Zwift races. You shouldn’t need to frequently sprint to stay in the front group and coast to recover. Keep your power smooth and efficient, keep those ‘sprints’ for when you really need them.
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Here is a second analysis, same setup performing a VO2 max work out with many accelerations.
On a regular race, they are with in 2% and multiple accelerations they separate.
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Not meant as a pun; I wonder if the general VS issues could be behind what seems like a delay in the Elite Square actually making it to store shelves… The initial DCR review had anticipated doing a full review of the Square by mid-November.
Yeah, gonna race tomorrow and challenge is to never stop pedalling.
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It’s not really a “stop pedaling” issue.
It’s an acceration issue.
Any time you are pushing harder on the pedals than the previous pedal stroke , will result in an over estimate of the watts.
You should be smooth steady state.
I belive sticky watts will not occur as long as Zwift receives watt numbers from the power meter source and if that is the case, it will not over estimate. Actually the problem in the first place was never an over estimate of power, but free/sticky watts, which is something else.
I did some experimenting in a robo paced group this afternoon.
Setting the display to 1s instead of 3s seems incredibly helpful.
Soft pedalling, or slowing cadence but keeping some power applied, after an acceleration doesn’t trigger sticky watts and allows you to get a brief feeling of ‘respite’. The wattage goes down almost instantly, even down to readings below 20.
You have to make a ‘hard stop’ for 3 seconds to get that stickiness.
Really don’t think I have been stopping that often for 3s other than in descents.
I noticed from older power profiles that right from my first Zwift races with (only) the trainer my power is very ‘spiky’, so this is just my style, I suppose.
I’ll aim to making it smoother and will just not stop pedalling.
Not sure about that conclusion.
With my dual recordings, I demonstrate significant over reporting of watts with accelerations and hard intervals.
This is the case even though I am pedaling.
We are talking about degrees of over estimation.
Coasting may maximize the discrepancy but it is present even with less pressure on the pedals.
Dual recording will still catch it.
Everyone should just use the trainer watts.
Your Wheel on trainer is late reporting power…direct drive trainers are way more accurate about that.
For example using Wahoo Core, v5, v6 or Elite Direto, Justo will get higher spikes when accelerating than Assiomas…but having Tacx NEO 1, 2, 3 will report lower readings.
So let’s keep this BLACK BOX closed please.
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I rode the first half of a race today (it’s not a race day in my plan as hand interval session yesteday and planned for Sunday) and never stopped pedalling. I just wanted to test if it was possible to avoid the wattage sticking. Before anyone checks my file I did do it on purpose a couple of times because at one stage I stopped to grab my towel and the wattage went straight to zero and I was thinking ‘huh’? But like I said, it only seems to happen if you make a sudden and hard stop, then do nothing. Not if you ease off into a short pause.
It is totally possible.
In fact I saw a post on another blog stating that the only thing PM users need to know is that they shouldn’t stop pedalling if they want to race 100% fair.
It’s not ‘harder’ in terms of effort (my 10 min average was entirely typical), but yeah, I’m not as used to racing in this style as I need to be. I can’t blast to the front and chill for a few seconds anymore.
Talked this through with my coach (ex pro). He says ‘F the haters and race in your own way, you’re making progress and Zwift racing isn’t something you should take seriously’.
I mean, he is an ex pro who has worn mountain jerseys in international stage races, and although he still trains as a ‘fanatic’ he says he regularly gets dropped on climbs by 50+ year old anonymous Zwift racers…
However, I want to race fairly, so am going to step back from racing for a while and work with him on a training plan to race with a constant tempo.
It’s also something that matches my physiology much better. I am a ‘diesel’, not a sprinter, so too much accumulated time in Z6 and Z7 is actually not ideal for me. But it has given me some raw power that I didn’t have before. I mean, my 30s and 1m power has improved massively in the last 4 months.
So the plan is to stick with the PM and race fair, without taking any of this too seriously.
I mean, in the race I did today a 3 time Tour de France finisher who retired a year ago came 42nd behind a number of guys with >5w/kg averages and 155bpm heart rates, often older riders who look a helluva lot heavier than their weight purports to be and have 900+ scores.
How do you know if your numbers are improved if you’re using a PM that may be overestimating your watts?
I guess an improvement is an improvement.
You could just use the trainer, have same degree of accuracy and perform any activity and not worry about scrutiny.
Zwift racing may not be accurate but it is still fun.
Your coach’s attitude is part of the problem and why he gets dropped by 50+ riders.
They are being coached by other coaches with a similar attitude.
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But … did you dual record ?
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PMs are far more accurate than trainers.
I realy don’t get why you think Assiomos are overestimating watts, compared to a cheap entry level trainer that doesn’t even claim to be accurate and has been discontinued.
I agree they are more accurate if used properly.
With Zwift adding 3s same Power to Powerdrops it’s why we are here…if that would be only 1s this thread would never happen.
If you are using your PM in a way that has been demonstrated to read high, then how can you and your coach know what your really doing.
Sure, your coach may be good but is 8 or 15 % of those gains real or artifact?
Your coach may want you to believe it’s real because it makes the coaching seem good.
And it may be.
Just start dual recording.
Your trainer may be bad.
With out a dual recording, we can’t make that statement.
Maybe your trainer only falls short in limited scenarios.
You just won’t know with out dual recording.
Yes, I have an old $200 trainer that I have demonstrated as accurate as I use it.
I am with in 2% agreement between trainer and pedals.
I’m new to dual recording but I think this means my data is good and that both devices demonstrate a natural cadence.