zPower: Don't be a "Flier"


(Stewart ) #281

Marcus, I think you will look for some other excuse to not pay next year as well from your replies here.
Zwift is not perfect and I get a bit annoyed with some of the flyers taking the jerseys or beating others in the races but there are so many benefits that I wouldn’t let something like that stop me using Zwift.
I will keep both TR and Zwift as there are still some worthwhile things that TR can offer but even if it was to stay as it is I would not drop Zwift.


(Will I Am Adams) #282

@steven

“serious  riders cant afford power meters unless they are sponsored”

Seriously dude -  I’ll assume you mis-typed  what you meant…

If not please explain that  logic


(Chris B (D)) #283

The fastest riders are the young riders who can train 20+ hours a week. A 22 year old who trains 20+ hours a week is not out spending $1k to $2k on a power meter (as they likely are not earning big dollars). A mid 40’s weekend warrior goes out and buys all the fancy gear. 

It was said 99.99% of fast riders have power meters. That is fundamentally wrong. That means that if you go to strava and look at a very popular segment with 10,000+ riders, there would only be 1 non-power meter rider in the top 10,000 riders. This is not true  

It has also been said that 90% of Zwift riders have power meters. That is not what I have seen, not even close.

having a power meter does not equal speed, only cash flow. 

Someone a few weeks ago here complared that a zpower rider bet them by 1 second, so clearly is cheating. Which is 100% bull. Unless that poster is Peter Sagan, then it’s very likely someone can beat them by 1 second. 

I now 100% support removing the zpower users and giving us our own leaderboard. The power meter riders will be back on here complaining about power meter cheats, as they’re still getting beaten. 

Time to unsubscribe from this thread, too few facts and too much ego. 


(Marcus Durant @VanelliCycling) #284

Hi Stewart G, not sure what you mean by that, I’ve only ever had a gripe about “flyers” and questionable feats of human endurance & this has never been addressed by the game developers.

I’m a ‘serious’ rider that isn’t sponsored and bought my own power meter to help my training.

If the situation got resolved, i’d most certainly be in for some virtual racing for sure. As it is, I can only compete against my self with any near confidence, I can do that with better facilities on TR. NB,also not paid or sponsored by them, its just a solid platform that seems to work, so TrainingPeaks and TR are getting my dollars for the moment

I certainly don’t mean any offence or harm to anyone who continues with the Zwift experience. Its all good if its the right thing for the individual.

edited multiple time due to terrible spelling. arghhh


(Stewart ) #285

No problem at all Marcus.
I have to say though, the flyers or dodgy Zpower riders don’t take too much away from the races which are a fantastic way to get in a tough workout, well worth doing them.
If it is getting a workout in then you don’t need to bother about the dodgy riders as you are racing for training purposes.
There really are not all that many during the races and you won’t be winning them anyway if Jernst Tempelaar rides as he is putting in Pro level performances.


(Mark Duncombe) #286

I am tiring of the power meter “master race” attitude of some here.

At the end of the day does it really matter if someone takes a jersey from you, is it really that important? Are you that fast that no one else could possibly be a contender? Zwift at the end of the day is a game, a leisure activity, a past time that also just happens to make you fitter and faster.

Someone with badly set-up equipment isn’t going to make you slower or less fit, all they are doing is having their name higher up on a list than you do for about an hour, get over it.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of fliers dont do it intentionally they just cant afford a compatible set-up or just have set it up wrong.

Power meters are expensive, not everyone can afford to buy one and I have said it before… its easy enough to spoof BLE/Ant+ power meter data if you want to cheat. 


(Chris B (D)) #287

If it wasn’t for the zpower users, then all the power users would have jerseys. They are all being robbed of being the fastest rider, for they are all the fastest. 


(Johnny RCCSFC (D)) #288

Have you seen the videos from Asia… I think Korean where they use a drill to simulate a ride?..  


(Alison Kubota [Vision] CVR) #289

Happy Holidays to all honest and diligent riders of Zwift regardless of gear.  Best wishes for a New Year filled with real higher FTPs and other actual performance gains reflected in better overall health and fitness. 


(Samuel Mendelow) #290

I think you have done a brilliant job in correcting these fliers, as I have only just started riding Zwift last Friday (I’ve done 6 rides), and I have seen maybe one flier, and when I think someone is a flier, it just ends up they were doing an interval or attacking a sprint point. Also, I am using a Wahoo Kickr, and I am really annoyed by the resistance on the climbs, when you go a round the first corner on the main KOM and the grade drops a ton, it is hard to shift up like 3 gears and then right back down 4 or 5 for the 8.5% bit, and the other section around the next corner and the one just before the line. When I try to race up it at 350-400W (like 5.5-6w/kg for me) I can’t get a rythem because of all the up and down shifts. And in real life they usually get steeper in the corners no?


(Dave Turpin *USMES* Rogue Velo) #291

I just joined Zwift a few days ago and have so far loved it!  Instead of struggling to develop the motivation to ride a trainer (snow outside makes real-world rides tough), I now wish I could ride more!  Unfortunately my legs are jelly today and I need to rest a bit before going again.

i have also been on the receiving end of this “debate”. I do not own a power meter, nor will I probably ever own one.  I have received comments tantamount to “you’re using zpower so you must be cheating”.  Why?  Because I happen to be putting up better power numbers than you?  

Well, let me talk a few points there. One, I am not a slouch on the real road and can produce the watts that I am claiming. Two, as a mechanical engineer Why not?  Principally because I’m a trust a single strain gauge power meter on the market. 


(Dave Turpin *USMES* Rogue Velo) #292

Okay, accidentally hit the submit button before I was done there.  Here is the point I was going to make:  if people really are cheating, it won’t translate to the real world, where it actually matters. 


(J eff) #293

I found your post amusing.  You don’t own a power meter  nor will you probably ever own one, yet you say you can produce the watts you are claiming?

 

Well damn, I guess they should stop producing power meters and ripping us all off since it’s easy to accurately tell what power we are putting out without one.


(Will I Am Adams) #294

Dave

i don’t know what wattage you are producing with Zpower and frankly  it doesn’t matter.  The majority of people using Zpower are producing watts per kilo that are not human and not realistic

 It’s not that they’re all cheaters but  just the Z power platform as a severely flawed one    

start looking at the leaderboard’s and see how many more power trainer riders are riding  then look who is usually at the top of the leaderboard’s Zpower riders that are riding at a ridiculous powers -coincidence- I think not.

it’s just that the whole platform sucks .  Good and start looking at the leaderboard’s and see how many more power trainer riders are in then look who is usually at the top of the leaderboard’s seapower riders that are riding at a ridiculous powers coincidence I think not


(Craig Howard KISS B) #295

The minute tolerances and algorithms devised to compensate for accurate power replication will be a million times more accurate than those of a ‘cheaply made by the thousands’ turbo trainer. The power curve of a dumb turbo will change due to a multitude of reasons. A strain gauge power meter won’t - especially one like Stages which is tested not only accurate within itself, but also when compared to the likes of SRM/Powertap.

I benched my Stages against the curve of my turbo running Z Power. The results were intriguing. My FTP is 277w (4.5W/KG) and there is a sweet spot at Z Power at 150watts where they both line up. If I hold real power at 200watts, the ZPower reads around 180watts, the higher i go, the more out of line ZPower becomes. it also the same story in the lower power regions.

 

To summarise, you simply can’t compare your “power” to that of a real calibrated and tested device.


(malcolm may (WCC) C) #296

“The majority of people using Zpower are producing watts per kilo that are not human and not realistic”

I am on zpower and have a calibrated lemond revolution trainer. Calibrated by Zwift.

I know am getting screwed. I push 1500 w + with my powertap outdoors, and I can barely hit 1100 on zpower. I can’t accelerate, and I have poor top speed. I can barely hit a speed downhill that I achieve on the flat. Even though I am heavy and it should be a no brainer. 

My FTP is 255, according to the zwift workout programs. I posted a query to zwift, and attached a calibration for the lemond from an outside techinical source. I can assure you that the zpower I experience is more like z half power. I have no bottom end, nor any top end. Though its better than being tagged with the 400 watt caps. I get frustrated when I see a guy I ride with on the roads come past and I can’t keep up. I see he’s pushing 250 watts and I am pushing 400 and I can’t get within 5 mph of him on the flat.

While I am ‘putting up’ with this commercial programs all I see is the whining from those who hate to see anyone pass them. Yes its frustrating. But wahoo kickr people can cheat. All they need to do is play with their profile and drop their weight. 

This has been the zwifts longest thread and I think most of the others have gone away.

If anything the weakness with the zpower is the calibration. The issues with profile weight is equally applicable to smart trainers and dumb trainers. Both are self adjustable and self deceiving.

 


(Marcus Durant @VanelliCycling) #297

Can we talk W/kg when rambling on about what I can achieve inside and outside. Otherwise its just meaningless.

ftp zpower / ftp powertap

W/kg, peak power? 3 second, 5 second…

what whatety what watt


(Yancy Fry) #298

Zwift please just give me the ability to turn off zpower users in my leaderboards so my client only displays real power users. This would fix all my issues.

 


(malcolm may (WCC) C) #299

What has watts per kilo got to do with it? People cheat on their weight and blame zpower. The smart trainer people do the same. W p kg is all about what weight you say you are. It becomes a meaningless contribution to the problem. If I weighed 70 kgs I’d never raise a sweat on the bike. Wkg ppfft. I see them coming past at 4 wpg and when I look at their data they are doing less than 200 watts. 

So far on zwift my 9 seconds over 1000w is all I can go. 10 seconds over 997. My weight is 102 kgs, so I am consistently over 9 per kg on sprints. 5 minutes at 570 + and I know I am getting short changed due to calibration.

And if you have a ‘correctly calibrated zpower’ inside it should correlate to your outside powertap. Otherwise its not calibrated at all. And yes my powertap is calibrated accurately. 

So having the information what’s your comment?


(Paul Allen (Watopia Wayfinder)) #300

I’m going to throw this out there so everyone can read the forum guidelines so no one gets in trouble for not knowing them: https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/201078465-Forum-Guidelines