XP for climbs

Can you not see the difference of erg mode holding a wattage and spinning without variation and varying resistance with terrain and having to change gears?

do you think there is a difference to doing interval training compared to steady state if the overall average is the same?

O yes I can see the difference, but we have gears so when the grade goes up you change to an easier gear. We have the gears so we don’t have to grind up the climb.

why not change gears, it is so easy.

but the constant changing of resistance and gear selection will never be as smooth an experience as erg mode.

No it won’t be as smooth but it will be a few watts up or down, but what difference will that make on a steady ride up the Alpe.

So keeping it in the blue on a free ride up the alp and keeping in the blue in a workout up the Alpe should be about the same time and effort, except for your hand switching gears and focusing on the road.

That will never happen in reality though will it, the small lumps and bumps which aren’t worth changing gears for, the jumps in gears will always be bigger than the slight changes erg mode can do, the corners where the gradient dropps dramatically then ramps upagain.

riding up the alpe in free ride is much more challenging in my opinion than just doing a workout.

do you think the alpe is more of a challenge than a flat ride of the same length of time? if so, why?

Yes it is more challenging in a free ride because you have to focus so much more to keep it steady. But for one or two times up the Alpe it is not that much different for an steady workout.

But doing a V-everest in workout vs free ride will be different, with all that focus and micro bursts over 12 hours.

May have to agree to disagree on this one

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Remember this all started with the idea that you can get 38min up the Aple in Workout mode.

So I stand by workout and free ride you should be in the same ballpark time.

So @Chris_Holton I do see your point and you make very good arguments that workouts and free rides are different. And for most of us that don’t have the gearing that we dream of it is much different at 100%.

The main question is: should climbs give me extra XP or not?
XP’s are earned doing WO’s and riding km’s. For me, this is the reason why PP are unpopular on hilly routes.

The answer is yes they should but it was an oversight when they were first introduced and it is way too far down the line now to change it so they never will.

Drops were brought in to kind of make up for this and you do get more for climbing

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Since you are discussing Trainer Difficulty, I will ask a question that has come up in my local group.
I looked for the spin off thead to see if more appropriate place to post but couldn’t find it.
A friend felt racers with a lower TD had an advantage.
I stated the previous opinion was TD had little effect.
But, is that proof in the pudding.
Is it common for racers to win or podium with TD set above 70?

Lower trainer difficulty means you will be able to go up steeper gradients more easily without spinning out on the flat or downhills (TD only has half the effect on downhills).

So it isn’t quite the same as gearing which you would have to set it up for better climbing or flat/sprinting

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As long as you don’t run out of gears on a climb and start grinding at 40rpm there is no difference between TD and changing gears. But as @Chris_Holton pointed out it could make a difference where you could run out of gears on the Downhill.

You should read the discussion between Chris and my self to get some finer details (I would suggest strong coffee while reading)

I think it gives you an unrealistic range of gears.

If trainer difficulty being set lower doesn’t make things easier then why do you do it?

do you think having it set to 0 gives an unfair advantage? If so at what point does it stop giving you an advantage?

Edit - I should point out that I have it set to 50% but I don’t race. I mainly do this because I don’t like rolling hills and the constant changing of gradients from +/-3% and reducing the difficulty helps flatten these a bit

Is this question towards me?

But I will answer because I am a sucker. LOL

If trainer difficulty being set lower doesn’t make things easier then why do you do it? If you run out of gears and start grinding at low RPM then TD does make life better.

No It does not give you an advantage, I would think you are at a bit of a disadvantage in that you don’t feel the grade change and you don’t have the resistance to push against.

I am also on 50% TD. I have 53/43 chainrings and 11-25 cassette, not really made for climbing.

It also depends on the rider’s characteristics - the diesel rider trained for steady power is probably going to be happier with TD lower. Punchy rider won’t mind the terrain as much.

One additional difference between setting TD low vs using gearing on gradients–and not an insignificant difference–is the ability with a low TD to avoid efficiency losses due to cross-chaining and tight chain articulation. If I can treat every road like a flat road, then I could leave my drivetrain in a nice efficient gearing with a straight chainline on bigger rings/cogs and not have to worry about wattage loss through increased friction of a laterally angled chain, or through chain articulation. The straighter the chain runs, and the bigger the gears it travels around, the more efficient the system is.

With TD at 0, I could throw a 56 ring up front and run it with the cogs in the middle of my cassette all day long and gain substantial efficiency benefits over someone who has to shift around the cassette and rings. (And that’s not counting all the times that person has to let up off the power for a moment to shift, times which will add up while I keep spinning away.)

I t was more of a general question - i’m not having a go btw - i like differing opinions (sometimes comes across wrong in writing so no bad intent meant).

Your gearing greatly benefits you on the flat changing TD doesn’t affect this, but you change it to make the hills less steep as this is easier with your gearing so you lowering the difficulty makes things easier for you than someone with the same set up but set to 100%.

there is nothing wrong with that but to say otherwise is, in my opinion, a bit disingenuous.

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I know that :ride_on:. We have been here long enough to know. :wink:

I agree TD does make it so I don’t grind to a hult with my setup. If there was no TD setting and we all had 100% then I would spend the $$$ to get a 53/34 and a 11/36 cassette (or a 11/52 :wink:) just for the trainer.

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good stuff - i’m just making excuses for why people are faster than me :wink:

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