The numbers provide a pretty good idea if you think about it. The other 3 drafted off the one guy the whole time, then outsprinted him to the line.
At those power levels and implied speeds on a flat course it easily could be 1 W/kg or more saved in the draft.
John,- I know as I progressed from D to C to B, and raced up on a few A races - the draft means more and more the faster you’re going. In my last race, a B points race, I came 4th. Only 4 riders of the 27 B’s had a lower w/kg than I did, and I’m not particularly heavy, under 80kg.
In real life clubs organize group rides by pace = speed… and when people talk about IRL Cat 1/2 vs 3 vs 4 vs 5 race pace it’s in speed not w/kg.
But Zwift is fixated on w/kg. I theorize it is because they want to promote this as the way to think for reasons of getting everyone and anyone into numbers based training and plans and coaching. It’s a path to upselling!
I would think that is because not everyone has a power meter outside. IRL speed based group rides is never at that speed especially those that are no drop, it end up being the speed of the slowest rider.
I have said it before, people tend to pick Zwift group rides that is way above their capabilities.
“I would think that is because not everyone has a power meter outside.”
Haha, sometimes the obvious is what you miss. Maybe I’m falling victim to conspiracy think though the % of people IRL picking club group ride groups way above their capability would be a lot less than the % in Zwift I think so expected pace = speed still has my vote.
In Zwift, the way they set-up the dynamics and everything w/kg probably is better. If they changed the dynamics to better mimic real life maybe speed would be better.
As many others have stated there are simply too many factors that go into a race to be able to determine final placement by looking at one metric. W/kg is as good as it gets generally. Weight, height, raw power, w/kg, bike/wheel combo, road grade, etc all play a role in final speed. It could be as simple as the higher w/kg guy was on the front the whole time and did not sprint the finish. All 3 could have been behind the whole ride and only overtaken in the last 100m.
Again point is that you cannot look at raw watts, nor w/kg, etc. No single factor will determine the outcome. I think thats what makes racing bikes very very complex and so fun… now add teammates in and we get tons of fast fun.
I’m in agreement with the OP that W/Kg doesn’t work all that great for determining which group to join. I almost exclusively join group rides on Zwift and consider myself a solid “C” rider, yet the “C” group ride I do on Sunday morning nearly kills me (and apparently I’m not alone as a lot of riders get dropped.) When I ride next to the yellow beacon rider, I always have higher W/Kg than he does and he did mention he’s a heavier rider.
If you are holding a higher W/kg than another rider, in order to hold position, then you must be a lighter rider than that person.
It happens and there is no way to level the playing board.
You can work on better drafting skills.
Maybe you need a slower group or work on your Zone 2 base.
Your situation does not necessarily mean W/kg doesn’t work for group rides.
How else would you do things?
Riding in real life groups has people getting dropped all the time unless it is a No Drop ride.
Then the whole group has to slow down or loop back.
I realize that it’s not at all straightforward, but I do think it would be helpful if ride descriptions included the raw Watts as well as W/kg. I just finished an absolute mess of a group ride which was advertised as “recovery pace” and everyone was complaining on the flats that they were pushing well above the advertised target W/kg and up into their tempo zone just to avoid getting dropped. It eventually came out that the leader was, well… a rather large guy. This kind of thing really isn’t helpful for recovery rides, which tend to target those of us who are injured, new to Zwift, or lightweight. (I personally called it quits and finished the ride off the back since I’m unfortunately in the injured category at the moment )
I understand your frustration and I agree, group rides, including pacebots, should advertise w/kg, raw watts and flat speed.
I’m ok with the bots increasing and decreasing power but the advertised speed should be average.
When I’m riding and I want to move up or down in intensity, the current w/kg has had me pop into a wrong group.
That said, zone 2 is an individual thing.
If the group is too fast , you have to be disciplined enough to back off and let them go.
If they are too slow, fly off and be gone.
Focusing solely on watts/kg (W/kg) in Zwift races has limitations, and incorporating additional factors like average speed and past heart rate data could offer a more nuanced picture of rider performance. Here’s why:
Limitations of W/kg:
Doesn’t account for absolute power: A heavier rider with a lower W/kg can still generate more absolute power (watts) than a lighter rider with a higher W/kg. This can be advantageous on flat sections where raw power is more important than W/kg.
Ignores drafting: Drafting behind other riders significantly reduces air resistance, allowing you to maintain a higher speed with lower power output. A rider might appear weaker based solely on W/kg if they haven’t been drafting effectively.
Doesn’t consider individual strengths: Different riders have varying strengths and weaknesses. While W/kg is a good general indicator of climbing ability, it doesn’t account for factors like sprinting prowess or time trial ability.
Benefits of using additional factors:
Average speed: Past average speed data from similar race profiles can give a better understanding of a rider’s potential on that terrain. This can help identify fast riders who might be under-ranked based solely on W/kg.
Heart rate data: Analyzing past heart rate data in relation to power output can provide insights into a rider’s efficiency and ability to sustain high efforts. This can help identify riders who are good at pacing themselves and maintaining power output throughout a race.
However, incorporating these additional factors also raises challenges:
Accuracy of data: Past data might not be accurate or reliable if the conditions were different (e.g., equipment changes, fatigue).
Subjectivity in average speed: Defining “similar race profiles” can be subjective, and average speed can be influenced by factors outside of rider ability.
Privacy concerns: Using personal heart rate data might raise privacy concerns for some riders.
Overall:
While W/kg is a valuable metric in Zwift, it shouldn’t be the sole factor for race categorization or determining performance. Considering additional factors like average speed and heart rate data, while acknowledging their limitations, can provide a more complete picture of a rider’s capabilities. It’s important to find a balance between using data effectively and maintaining fairness and inclusivity in Zwift racing.
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