# Understanding wkg **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949 "2023-06-07T13:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![1553\_andy\_Jones](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/1553_andy_jones/32/513851_2.png) [@1553\_andy\_Jones](https://forums.zwift.com/u/1553_andy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/1 "2023-06-07T13:46:51Z")
Just trying to understand results in this mornings herd race … I’m not accusing anyone I’m trying to understand how it works when a heavier rider produces less watts but places higher than a lighter rider who produces more watts … again I’m only looking to understand , thanks ---
**Author:** ![James\_Zwift](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/james_zwift/32/467851_2.png) [@James\_Zwift](https://forums.zwift.com/u/James_Zwift)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/2 "2023-06-07T13:47:56Z")
Generally they draft better. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Hammatt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/steve_hammatt/32/210763_2.png) [@Steve\_Hammatt](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Steve_Hammatt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/3 "2023-06-07T13:48:13Z")
Overall watts is what makes you faster unless it’s a super-hilly race, not w/kg. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Zwift](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/james_zwift/32/467851_2.png) [@James\_Zwift](https://forums.zwift.com/u/James_Zwift)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/4 "2023-06-07T13:49:09Z")
I think you’ve misinterpreted the question - in the example, the heavier rider has done fewer watts than the lighter rider. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Cl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/steve_cl/32/19534_2.png) [@Steve\_Cl](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Steve_Cl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/5 "2023-06-07T13:57:54Z")
Were you racing in the Herd Bullseye race? If so, that race isn’t just about who finishes the race distance fastest, it’s about all the sprint/lap segments throughout the race, points are accumilated according to your position relative to others in your pen for each timed segment. The format for this race is relatively uncommon, I always meant to try one last year while in decent shape, but never got organised enough to join one. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Hammatt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/steve_hammatt/32/210763_2.png) [@Steve\_Hammatt](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Steve_Hammatt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/6 "2023-06-07T14:00:34Z")
> [@James\_Zwift](#): > > I think you’ve misinterpreted the question I may well have done. But I was going off the thread subejct being about “wkg”. ---
**Author:** ![Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/gerrie_delport_odz/32/437556_2.png) [@Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Gerrie_Delport_ODZ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/7 "2023-06-07T14:05:53Z")
As Steve pointed out the Herd Bullseye race use different scoring. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/original/4X/a/8/7/a870095355e248c6f018f31f855ce1a6af87d8e2.png) If you compare your power to the top 3 C’s you will see they sprinted a lot harder. Look at the power up to 2min. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/original/4X/a/e/f/aef1a26d03b9f06982cf94ebd4b3494df42af65c.png) ---
**Author:** ![Craig\_D\_Mart](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/craig_d_mart/32/405165_2.png) [@Craig\_D\_Mart](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Craig_D_Mart)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/8 "2023-06-07T15:12:53Z")
Orjan is an absolute BEAST in the Bullseye format as well as being a master Zwift drafter. ---
**Author:** ![1553\_andy\_Jones](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/1553_andy_jones/32/513851_2.png) [@1553\_andy\_Jones](https://forums.zwift.com/u/1553_andy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/9 "2023-06-07T15:44:07Z")
Sorry I’m still non the wiser , heavier riders generating less watts but smashing the field, top 4 all with less watts than me , again I’m only trying to understand ---
**Author:** ![Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/gerrie_delport_odz/32/437556_2.png) [@Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Gerrie_Delport_ODZ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/10 "2023-06-07T15:46:04Z")
@1553_andy_Jones It is a points race, they smashed the sprints and got the most points and then drafted until the next sprint. As you can see they did a LOT more power in the sprints than you. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Zwift](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/james_zwift/32/467851_2.png) [@James\_Zwift](https://forums.zwift.com/u/James_Zwift)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/11 "2023-06-07T15:47:13Z")
Great that Orjan is back on form. ---
**Author:** ![Craig\_D\_Mart](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/craig_d_mart/32/405165_2.png) [@Craig\_D\_Mart](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Craig_D_Mart)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/12 "2023-06-07T15:53:58Z")
It’s a race with points for sprints. The final standing is based on the points earned on the sprint banners. If a rider is drafting the whole race other than when they’re sprinting, they’re saving ~30% power based on someone riding in the wind. Bullseye races are barely ever won by the rider with the highest average power unless they successfully break away solo or in a very small group. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Galbraith](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/david_galbraith/32/457908_2.png) [@David\_Galbraith](https://forums.zwift.com/u/David_Galbraith)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/13 "2023-06-07T17:04:04Z")
I imagine normalised wkg would tell a somewhat different story … Update: just looked. It does indeed. OP … the winner’s NP was over 300 watts. Yours was 237. He’s only 5kg heavier. ---
**Author:** ![1553\_andy\_Jones](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/1553_andy_jones/32/513851_2.png) [@1553\_andy\_Jones](https://forums.zwift.com/u/1553_andy_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/14 "2023-06-07T18:18:24Z")
I understand the premise of the race , each lap is a sprint for the line then recover and in each lap there’s a short kicker . I was also drafting after each lap but I couldn’t compete with the sprint… I kept pace and rejoined but was way off . Zwifting for years now and it still frustrates me … either not knowing or not understanding ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Southworth](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/paul_southworth/32/538336_2.png) [@Paul\_Southworth](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Paul_Southworth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/15 "2023-06-07T18:33:45Z")
Sprints don’t have a big impact on overall W/kg in most events, unless the route is super short. It’s what you do at all the other times that matters most. Since I don’t win a lot of races, I’m often looking for “wins” that involve me placing better than others of similar weight who did more Watts. They wasted more energy than I did. There is a lot of craft in the draft. ---
**Author:** ![\_JamesA\_ZSUNR](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/_jamesa_zsunr/32/47767_2.png) [@\_JamesA\_ZSUNR](https://forums.zwift.com/u/_JamesA_ZSUNR)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/16 "2023-06-07T20:08:05Z")
It also helps to be short and fat. There’s true skill in pie-eating. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Galbraith](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/david_galbraith/32/457908_2.png) [@David\_Galbraith](https://forums.zwift.com/u/David_Galbraith)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/17 "2023-06-07T20:27:47Z")
So you’re maintaining a steadyish 230 watts while alternately falling back from and catching back up to the big boys. The big boys are alternately doing 1000 watts for about 20 seconds and then noodling round in the draft at 165 watts for the rest of the lap. You’ll possibly all be averaging about 230 watts, just in very different ways. This is why Normalised Power was developed as a metric, to try to reflect the impact of spiky surges. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Galbraith](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/david_galbraith/32/457908_2.png) [@David\_Galbraith](https://forums.zwift.com/u/David_Galbraith)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/18 "2023-06-07T20:28:33Z")
> [@\_JamesA\_ZSUNR](#): > > It also helps to be short and fat Tbf, tall and fat works quite well too. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/gerrie_delport_odz/32/437556_2.png) [@Gerrie\_Delport\_ODZ](https://forums.zwift.com/u/Gerrie_Delport_ODZ)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/19 "2023-06-07T20:33:32Z")
Not on climbs. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Galbraith](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/gozwift/user_avatar/forums.zwift.com/david_galbraith/32/457908_2.png) [@David\_Galbraith](https://forums.zwift.com/u/David_Galbraith)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949/20 "2023-06-07T20:43:55Z")
We were talking about sprints! [Next page](https://forums.zwift.com/t/understanding-wkg/607949.md?page=2)