Runner to become cyclist, newbie questions

General Discussion
41

As a multisport athlete myself, I’ve noticed the distinct mindsets between different sports. When approaching your indoor or outdoor cycling training, it helps to think like a cyclist and set aside what you know from running. Each sport has its own culture, and cycling is no exception.

Cyclists, much like paddlers, have a deep passion for their gear and often identify strongly with their equipment—bikes for cyclists, boats for paddlers. Data backs this up, showing significantly higher spending and emotional attachment to gear among these groups. Cyclists typically invest between $500 and $2,500 annually in equipment and upgrades, while paddlers spend around $800 to $3,000 or more. This highlights how integral gear is to their sporting identity.

In contrast, runners and swimmers take a more practical approach. They prioritize essentials like shoes or swimwear, spending considerably less overall—typically $200–$500 per year for runners and $100–$400 for swimmers. Their identity is less tied to equipment, focusing more on functionality and simplicity rather than continuous upgrades or customization.

I bring this up because I spend a lot of time with runners and swimmers who also bike, and it’s obvious just by looking at their bikes. They’re exceptionally fit athletes, but you’ll often see them riding with dirty chains, noisy bottom brackets, and cross-chained gears. It’s a classic case of mindset differences between sports—where runners and swimmers may overlook the finer details of bike maintenance that a dedicated cyclist would never ignore.

42

Oh okay, I’ll tell those folks who have been riding for 20+, 30+ years that they don’t know what they’re talking about regarding their own comfort.

43

No, don’t do that, but maybe ask why they feel having 1 hand position option is more comfortable than having 4 options?

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44

Maybe they just find the four hand positions for drop bars all less comfortable than the one they get with a flat bar? Is 4 less comfortable positions supposed to be better than 1 more comfortable position? Maybe the position of brake levers and shifters with a flat bar is more comfortable for them than the position of the levers and shifters with a drop bar? Maybe it’s wrist position and flexibility?

I often recommend saddle widths that fit the rider’s sit bones as a relatively universal way to find saddle comfort. But one thing I never find myself doing is listening to someone say “I find this particular saddle to be more comfortable than that one” and responding with “No you don’t.”

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45

Again this is just geometry and fit. You can get your hands in (virtually) the same position with a wide and flared drop bar and you get a bonus 3 additional positions

46

Again, you guys are way off topic, go argue about handle bars in your DMs.

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47

Sorry, I don’t want him misleading someone new to cycling about this information. :person_shrugging: It’s also very relevant to ‘what bike/system should I buy for Zwift’.

The fact that you’re resorting to ‘virtually’ here says everything. This is a sport where people getting bike fits are making changes of mm’s and cm’s, and it’s often making huge differences in comfort. It’s absurd that you’re taking your personal comfort experience and attempting to say that every single human being on the planet will find comfort the same way you do.

What seem like little changes to you can be big changes to someone else. And you’re simply wrong if you think that every. single. person. who prefers flat bars over drops simply hasn’t put the attention into it that you have. People have tried things before, just like you have. They find comfort in different things. You have simply zero ground to stand on to say they are wrong about how they feel on a bike. Absurd. And again, I know people who have been riding for 20, 30 years, have ridden all kinds of bikes, all kinds of geometries. And you’re simply saying “they haven’t done this one thing the right way”, and you’re saying that without knowing anything about them and what they’ve tried at all. :person_shrugging:

If you want, please show me a drop-bar setup that can get someone:

  1. hands flat, palms down
  2. brake levers parallel to the ground
  3. and thumb shifting.
48

I don’t get it… Any road bar has top horizontal areas. I have interruptor brakes on one of my road bar bikes, and what’s special about thumb shifting (though my Campy bike has half of the shifting done with the thumb)? If we are also talking about Zwifting with virtual shifting, doesn’t the Click rely mostly on a thumb anyway?

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49

Some people find it more comfortable to use?

Any road bike has horizontal grips, where the brake levers and shifters also are, at 700+mm apart?

Trying hard to see why there is resistance to the idea that different people find different things comfortable. It doesn’t seem that revolutionary of a concept to me. What evidence do you or anyone else have that every single one of 8 billion people on the planet will like things the way you do? That doesn’t seem like a kind of wild assumption to you?

Is clipless more comfortable than flats? Are gloves more comfortable than no gloves? Sunglasses over the straps or under? Lycra or baggies? I assume there is one and only one answer to all of these too, that everyone will agree on if only they ‘do it the right way’?

I was just out hiking, using trekking poles. I use an upright hand position–palms facing inwards. I tried for a while to put my hand on top of the pole, palm down, and it was less comfortable. Raising or lowering the height of the poles (they’re adjustable) made no difference. If someone tells me they prefer to use them palm-down, should I tell them they are wrong? They don’t really feel more comfortable that way?

“Everyone likes pie more than cake. If you don’t, you just haven’t had the right kind of pie.”

Edit to clarify relevance: someone who finds flat bars more comfortable may find a flat bar bike + trainer more comfortable than a dedicated smart bike. There’s more to overall comfort than bar type, but it’s one possibly significant consideration.

50

The initial pushback in this thread started with the assumption and advice that someone getting a bike to use both on Zwift or outdoors, should get a flat-bar bike. I’m of a mind that the percentages are such, that a road handlebar is likely to be odds on favorite to be a better choice, knowing nothing else except that they want a bike that can be used outside or inside (on Zwift).

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51

The notion that more might prefer a drop bar is a far cry from the claim I was responding to–that everyone will definitely prefer drop bars. In the face of experienced cyclists saying “I do not”.

My estimation of the customers at our shop would be around 1/3 that likely don’t find one significantly more comfortable than the other, 1/3 who prefer drop bars, and 1/3 who prefer flat.

Of those thirds that have preferences, it may be that some of them have limited experience with the other kind and might find that their preferences would change, or even out, with more experience. And that 1/3 that have no clear preference is probably too high. Maybe 1/5, 2/5, 2/5.

But I know people–specific human beings I have known and worked with–who have years and years of cycling under their belts. I know people who have spent more on bikes than I have earned by working at a bike shop. And some of them, after riding about everything under the sun, prefer flat bars. And I’m imagining someone saying to these people “Nah, you just haven’t ridden enough bikes.” Sure. Unbound, Tour Divide, RAAM. They don’t know what they’re talking about :slight_smile:

For the record, if someone doesn’t know what their preference is, I put them on both, and I explicitely point out the different hand positions of drop bars. They clearly are a nice feature. But again, I know people who ride flat bars who tell me they don’t care, and don’t miss or need different places to put their hands, because they’re comfortable.

And the claim above that ‘it’s all about fit and geometry’ would seem to rely on every bike being infinitely custumizable in fit. And that’s just not the case. A Stumpjumper can’t be setup for fit like a Venge. And if a Stumpjumper is a better frame, comfort-wise, for a given person, slapping drop bars on it might not be better. Likewise, for a given person there might be nothing you could do to make flat bars on a Venge comfortable. That means that, for a given person X, a particular bike with a flat bar might be far more comfortable than any other bike with drop bars, and even more comfortable than that bike with drop bars.

Because people are different. Their physiology and psychology. Different in many ways.

Saying ‘just get a flat bar’ isn’t the best advice. But ‘everyone will be more comfortable on a drop bar’ is not either. It is, in fact, demonstrably false.

52

I think this was more about that if you’re shopping for a road bike, you can find a geometry that will work for you that has either kind of handlebar. Not that you can make any bike work for you.

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53

The claims I was responding to were claims that the comfort the people I know find in a flat bar “has nothing to do with handlebar type but everything with geometry and fit”.

That’s patently false. Hand position is connected to shoulder position, and comfort varies. (Some people like doing curls with their palm up, some like doing them with their palm facing in. Because physiology.)

I was responding to absolute claims, claims that were just flat out rejecting the idea that anyone could like flat bars over drops given the same bike. That is again demonstrably false.

My favorite, most comfortable bike is basically a drop bar hard tail mtb. But it’s nowhere near as popular as a flat bar hard tail mtb. Is some of that momentum and ‘tradition’? Sure. But some of it is simply individual preference. It’s just that simple.

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54

Thanks y’all for your comments, I have read all of them, though some more carefully than others.
I did some workouts, as well as a ramp test at the Zwift gym in my city. I managed to get an FTP of 272, which equals 3.4 w/kg for me. This brings up two more questions, keep in mind that I still have not decided if I should go for running (maybe back from my injury in 1-2 weeks) or cycling:

  1. If I go for cycling: What kind of workouts should I do to, as quickly as possible, translate my running fitness to cycling fitness? My running PBs are 5k:17.16, 10k:35.44, Marathon:2.48. All of these are (from what people have told me and from what makes sense) quite a bit better than my 3.4 watts/kg. So, how to I bridge that gap as quickly as possible? When I did the ramp test it felt very differently from when I push myself when running. Sure HR got up and I was breathing hard, but it was the muscle tension that made me stop at 380 watts, it was like doing squats at the gym with to much weight on the bar. I will try to do a 20-min ftp test next weekend to see if it turns out differently.
  2. If I go for running: What kind of cycling workouts are most benificial for my running fitness? From what I have gathered threshold work is quite specific, in other words, its hard to improve running threshold speed by doing cycling and vice versa, while vo2max and easy running/cycling transfer better since it is the heart that you are training rather than specific muscles. (but correct me if I am wrong).
55

I’m not a coach, so I don’t want to give specifics about training plans. But what you are describing from your ramp test is pretty common. Do you know what RPM you were at (the RPM of your feet/pedals)? A lot of folks coming to cycling have to spend some time learning to spin faster. ‘Mashing’ at low RPM recruits your fast-twitch muscles at a higher rate, so you burn out faster, while spinning at higher RPMs brings in more slow-twitch fibers. But it’s not a straight ‘higher RPM=better’ progression, and part of settling in is finding your own ideal cadences. Which can change over time, to be sure. Ballpark numbers a lot of people find themselves in are in the 85-95rpm range–but that’s very ballpark, and will change depending on the power you need to put in, whether you’re climbing, sprinting, flat road, etc. If you watch two cyclists doing the same thing, like going up a climb, you might see one standing on the pedals at a low-ish cadence, and another sitting down and spinning much faster. And they might be both climbing at the same speed, and both just as fresh/tired at the top.

So that’s one thing to experiment with in your training–see where your cadence is at, and play around with it to find what feels good, what maximizes your endurance, power output, etc. You’ve got a huge base of fitness to work from, it’s a matter of learning how to apply that to different muscle movements.

56

I prefer a cadence around 85-90 I have found (when using erg mode in a workout). In one workout I was told to go at 75 and it was much harder, then later in the same workout I had to do 105, which was also much harder. When I did the ramp test I think I had a cadance around 90. I also had no cycling shoes to I guess I lost some power by not being stuck to the pedals (I dont think I would have made a whole minute of 380 anyway though).

57

There’s mixed evidence about whether clipless pedals help with power. Lots of mountain bikers, for example, can produce excellent power numbers on flat pedals. Personally I think a lot of it comes down to technique–if you have good technique, meaning you are able to keep your feet firmly in place on the pedal without clipless pedals, then they might not help much. For me, I think they do help with my power because I don’t know that I have good technique, so being attached to the pedal keeps my feet in the right place, and I’m more efficient.

A lot of people will talk about ‘pulling up’ on the pedal when you’re clipped in–meaning on the upward part of the stroke, people feel like they can produce power up on the pedal. But they don’t. They most anyone does is slightly lessen the downward force of their leg on the pedal–that’s not really an advantage of clipping in, even if it feels like it.

Feeling ‘connected to the bike’ just feels good for a lot of people, though. And if you’re really putting power through the pedals, and you don’t have good technique, your feet can move around, slip off, etc.

(And I should point out the oddity that ‘clipless pedals’ are the name for the ones that you clip into, whereas ‘flat pedals’ are the ones you just step on and don’t clip into. Because cycling is strange, lol.)

(Second edit: your RPM numbers are in the general big part of the bell curve, but yeah, play around and see what you find. Some of it of course is just going to be reprogramming neural pathways for efficiency with new muscle movements, which takes time.)

58

Where are you at that there is a Zwift gym?
With a name like Zwift gym, I would assume the trainers or bikes are accurate.

If this was your first FTP test, which one did you do?
FTP tests are just estimates and are mostly useful for establishing roughly where your workout intervals should be set and for tracking progress when compared to testing using the same test.

One thing that I generally see is people don’t tend to get their best test the first time thru it
It generally takes the experience of having done a test before to see how to control the effort and/or cadence

Still, 272 is very good.

59

Tim: Its not an official Zwift gym but rather a cycling gym which (among other things) have a room with three Kickr v2 bikes connected to Apple tvs. In my city (Stockholm) it is the only one with Zwift access. I was also told that they have most other cycling apps installed but that everyone uses Zwift.

I did the normal ramp test, but I will probably try the 20 minute test next weekend. Im not sure what watt number I will aim for yet.

60

It doesn’t matter which one you do.
They all have short comings but they are most meaningful when you compare the same test protocol to itself.

I would would do the same test again.

That said, I don’t do FTP tests anymore.
I race and do hard VO2 work outs and just set my FTP about 5 watts higher than Intervals calculates it.