Nobody was dictating, they were “asking”.
From the first post:
When I’ve seen this request it has usually been with a polite language, please and thanks.
As long as you agree people can ride the way they like.
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Honestly I don’t think it’s nice to “politely ask” someone to ride differently in Zwift during free rides or robo pacer rides. No matter how polite it is it will put pressure on that person, and the truth is pacers are not consistent due to both their drafting behavior and dynamic pacing so you can’t “expect” everyone to behave a certain way with the pacer.
In general with the slower bots there’s always someone ahead of the pacer so the main issue is probably Genie and Constance, and often those only have a few folks which is why someone in front matters more. If you were feeling Jacques was too slow and wanted to move up you might not see a big wattage difference in Genie if nobody is in front of Genie so you might want to be in front to meet your goal.
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I suggest you join the Constance group at the right time and put your request to them instead of aiming it at me. They are the ones asking.
This isn’t about me, I ride the way I want and have never had anyone criticize me for riding out in front of the pacer, in fact if you look at the example posted by someone else the group is spaced all around the robopacer.
I ride with Bernie for 3-4 miles before switching to Jacques / Genie for a main ride, a warmup if you will.
You’re trying to tell me that robopacers can actually draft off other riders? I find that very difficult to believe.
It has been that way for years, except for the one time draft was turned off which was back in the very old days:
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There is no special time to ride with Constance.
4-6pm at the Asia-pacific time zone.
I’d ask why ignore someone’s polite request if it’s not a big deal?
This is an issue for a lot of people–the evidence is that it’s come up here before, frequently, and it does make it harder for some people to ride with some bots. And it’s easier to spot in smaller bunches, I’d imagine. I ride with the middle bots a lot, and sometimes those groups are 10, 12 people.
Anyway, if it is an issue for some people in that it makes it harder for them to hang with the group, and they ask politely (because they cannot ‘make’ you do anything), and if it’s not a big deal to not do it, why say no? 
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What seems counterintuitive in this whole discussion, is my experience, within IRL group rides, is that the lower leveled and slower group rides, the leader is actually a leader. Why? Because it’s more of a beginner group, the followers want cues and direction from someone in front of them, and, they don’t have an ability to take a pull.
Then you come to Zwift, and for the fast RP groups, it’s evidently the opposite. Nobody wants to take a pull, everyone expects to sit in the draft of the RP leader. While IRL, the fast group rides tend to be rotating pacelines where everyone pulls for a while.
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Not counterintuitive at all.
IRL in the big cycling club group rides I’ve been in (and the ones organised by my old club), the group rides at an advertised pace on a specific route which is put on all the club webpages and other locations. Although people swap turns at the front, everyone maintains the specific speed and stays together. This is about bunch riding skills.
You don’t get each pair of people at the front trying to smash the group, that gets shut down quickly and folks trying that are asked to not do it again or ride somewhere else.
It’s the same even with the local pro riders in their groups. Eight of us were 2 abreast riding in a very neat, compact bunch at a set speed, slowing when needed for safety.
It’s not the same as in Zwift someone coming along with 5.0w/kg+ and 40kg weight dragging the bunch along faster and faster and making sure to always be on the front and deliberately pushing the pace.
To make IRL riding relate more to Zwift, Zwift needs everyone to have precise braking and steering control and collisions, then you can have IRL bunch riding experience. People will be focused on not causing a bunch crash aside from speed.
This is possible in sim racing for cars, so it shouldn’t be impossible for virtual cycling.
There is no problem with doing a pull at the front. It won’t make any difference to the riders behind the robot. The riders will get the same advantage as the Robot.
The robot ride at a fixed pace (on the flats climbs they go crazy) so people in the Robots draft won’t feel a difference, they will just go faster.
This was a long argument before.
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Any riders behind who have a gap to the main pacer bunch could be dropped though, through the unexpected surge in pace ahead which they won’t benefit from.
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There’s been a number of different iterations of pack dynamics that have all changed how other riders interact with one another.
There is a definite change to speed and therefore power requirements when riders hit the front and tow the bot and therefore group.
It’s an always on group ride so some etiquette should be applied, but there are no rules stopping you, but if you are forcing other riders to get dropped from a group ride then it’s bad form. If it’s a race, well that’s a completely different thing.
For the OP, you now know the actions impact others, the balls in your court how you deal with it.
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The problem is that is impossible. These rides are expected to be a free for all and that’s how they will remain. Either there is a systemic fix or there is no fix.
As aside, I rode with Jacques I think on day 1 of the Rapha 500 on Tempus, there was a full team of A cat & zwift verified riders in the group and the average speed was 46kph on the route… I had to dig deep to just sit in the bunch, it’s never normally anywhere near as tough as it was.
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I think the scenario being discussed is easily presented as a hypothetical group ride of 3 riders; the RP + 2 humans.
If RP leads and is 3w/kg, then the 2 humans behind enjoy draft and perhaps are doing 2.6 w/kg.
If a human wants to lead and stay ahead of RP, He has to do maybe 3.4w/kg and that same RP in his draft will remain at 3w/kg. However, the other human who is also behind back in the draft, also now has to do 3 w/kg, instead of the 2.6 when the RP was the lead.
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Not even remotely true in the special case where the RP is on the front.
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Absolutely correct about the gap. And you can also just be on the sides of the bunch and have a problem, because the draft zone isn’t uniform.
I’ll never understand a “your experience isn’t correct because theory” reply.
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I ride my ride based on my own fitness goals, but one of the benefits of using a robo pacer is that the pace isn’t consistent, especially on hills and downhills. If I push too hard, I risk dropping the pacer, and if I get distracted, I might get dropped myself.
All that said, from my experience, staying closer to the front of the group is better than hanging at the back because of the “exaggerated” draft created by the blob. If I get distracted by a phone call or something else, it’s tough to catch up once I’ve fallen behind."