riding enjoyment really. Lower cats D/C prefer to ride with similar riders rather than just having a threshold effort to the point they blow up every race.
As we see people like to feel competitive and take part at the pointy end of the race, challenging for primes etc.
If that were true you wouldn’t have started your thread earlier in the week complaining about being upgraded to B - it was shown to you how you met B limits but you wouldn’t have it…
I can only presume fair to you, is you racing in the cat you see fit…
As someone else pointed out, you held 3.2wkg for 50mins in a TTT…
That option already exists. There is many events that start as one group.
But early in the racing history when racing was run by the Zwift community before starting pens and Zwift power the community realized that the group needs to be split to make it exciting and competitive for more people.
I know it exists as an option for racing. That’s why I wrote that it’s easy because it’s just abolishing the category system.
Well, what could be more exciting and competitive in this case?
If there were no categories, most people wouldn’t make it to the top of the race. However, most people can ride and compete with similar riders without being restricted to categories.
No one cares about which category is up or down.
And the sandbagger will cease to exist.
If this was true then the community would not have spend many hours creating categories and manually filtered results.
Unfortunately that is not how race plays out. I’ve done many mass start races and while i like them occasionally the usual format is just hanging on until death.
There is no tactics involved other than riding until you die.
Where as the best category racing on zwift i’d say is mad monday with split cats so no matter what ability you are you get to experience a race with tactics which is far more enjoyable than riding at 120% FTP to see who can last the longest.
Of course, it would be best if every rider could do it. But it is not. I don’t think a system that only some riders can enjoy is good.
But I agree and understand what you mean.
agreed cats with static limits is not a great solution. sooner the better we give organisers the options to set limits and some sort of ranking system will improve racing.
In theory this is a good idea. But we all know people will just sandbag race 1 and 2 and then over perform in the series, see WTRL ZRL where sandbaggers rule the series.
What you say is true but I think the focus of attention on sandbaggers is not really that helpful. The system is broken by design, people deliberately gaming it is a natural enough response but it would still be broken even if they didn’t. Stopping sandbagging (however you care to define it) wouldn’t fix it.
Why, I would have thought there was an equal probability that the higher one was more accurate if both PMs have the same percentage error rating ? Assuming of course they measure at the same place, i.e crank as opposed to the now defunct Powertap measuring later in the drivetrain at the hub (not sure if the smarttrainers also lose a bit of power due to presumably measuring at the equivalent of the hub).
Not everyone can race series of races.
If a race is not part or a series on zwift there is a fast start and anyone not in the front group drops out of the race, that is repeated until there is a front group of power riders and then very few other riders in the race.
The idea that you can just find racers at your own level is pretty much a myth.
At least from what I experience.
That racing experience happens with or without categories.
If there is no category, the number of participants will increase. The larger the number of participants, the easier it is to form a group other than the front group. If you still ride solo, it means that there are no riders of your level in the race.
I don’t agree with this. In one big group it is just a fondo. There is no tactics in one big group, it is just hanging on as long as you can. With categories (ABCD) we have 4 groups that can have tactics to “win” a race.
If you are at the bottom of the category you train to stay with the group as long as possible and therefore get stronger.
I can’t think of any sport that does not have categories/levels to keep the competition interesting on all levels.
can’t think of many that are split on things other than age or gender unless safety is an issue (boxing for example)
Just one example UCI cycling categories.
and Chess rankings.
or Golf handicaps
Motor sport… rallying… you don’t race a 1.3 standard ford escort against a full works prepared car. All vehicles have designated classes.
Soccer, speed skating, curling, BMX, badminton, Tennis, Hockey - most recreational sports I’ve participated in have a skill / level component to putting competition together as well as age. Any time there is some interaction between competitors, whether it’s combative, drafting, or whatever it’s necessary to have fun. I’m not going to get much enjoyment (other than novelty) or development from watching the ball get pounded past me playing tennis with a pro.
Drafting, groups, attacks - all important parts of road cycling for which you need to be in a field of similar competitors to happen. Otherwise it’s a time trial.
Road running is one of the few sports that does throw everyone in together on the same course at the same time.
We do have a no-categories series we run in the winter (Herd Winter Racing) and it’s fun - but that format does not attract many D’s and C’s.
Gravel racing in the US does this too, we are all together on the course at the same time. However, there are age group, gender, and equipment categories (single speed, tandem, fat tire, etc.)