Pack Dynamics 4 - Phase 3 [January 2023]

So what happens with speeds <= 3km/h then? Are we constantly slowed down when riding at about the same speed as the rider in front?

It doesn’t matter how long the draft cone is if it is too weak.

Look a few posts up, he explains it.

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Yes. I wanted to get the details :slight_smile:

Has anything chaged with PD4 over the last week? I noticed the group was slightly slower on the flat than our previous tests.

Thanks for sharing. I wasn’t following the earlier posts closely, must have missed it.

How many riders in front of me are taken into account, when comparing my speed to theirs? Is it everyone in front of me in a pack, regardless of how strung out the pack might be? Or is it every rider in front of me within a certain distance?

My experience with PD4 has been that “relaxing in the draft” is a thing of the past. Perhaps I am used to reducing my power to adjust my speed, instead of letting the PD4 do it’s thing.

I’m not saying anything that hasn’t been said, but for the PD4 races I’ve been doing, there is no relaxing because everyone is full gas all the time for the short duration (<40min). PD3 masked this and pulls you along, seriously penalizing anyone out of the group, but PD4 seems do a better job of making you work if everyone around you is working too. This will absolutely drive newcomers to PD4 bonkers, along with people who have optimized how they ride to the PD3 physics. I’ve been switching back and forth a lot doing TdW races (cough I mean rides) and then PD4 races, and the difference is night and day.

Suggestion: Ride a PD4 event that isn’t a (short) race and you’ll get a better idea of how real draft feels in PD4. When it arrives for pace partners, it will be a great opportunity for a bunch of Zwift riders to experience PD4 for the first time outside of a race context.

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I suspect the masses will rage about PD4 for a while after it goes global, but with time it will feel normal.

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After the rage, people will either resign and just think “there is nothing I can do about it”, or look for alternatives.

I have been doing these races myself, and my experience is that regardless if people are going full gas or not, it is easier to be inside the pack than at the back. If you react to potential gaps in front of you, it should be easier to be at the back than inside. The draft can be the same, but you will be locked in within the pack, while you should be more agile at the back.
The logic for when we are slowed down to the speed of the rider in front, should be the same if we are inside the group or just at the back. I feel I can move up more freely when inside the group until I reach the front, than to move up from the back. That is not natural to me.

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Maybe we need everyone to have steering and brakes, then crash detection. Touch wheels, boom, everyone goes down! :wink: just kidding of course.

But that’s the difference is that we don’t have that here - so you have the ability to go up through the pack without problem while IRL you may not be able to at all or you have to wait for gaps, especially if it is a narrow road.

Stop preaching about how hard it is at the back and do some PD4 Races or at least finish them…from your profile i can see only 2 Tiny Races (1 of 4) that you finish with PD4 this year…not sure how many you started and abandon most likely the Test races.

Me and @Ben_Sandee are doing this race weekly and PD4 is great for Zwiftracing.app Races where you don’t have Sandbaggers destroying the races like in CE or ZP Cat.

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I think there’s validity in both points. PD4 is a huge improvement but it doesn’t mean it’s flawless, and it’s OK to report that it still has some weird behaviours.

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This, I’ve been doing the races , and luxuriating in the draft at the back. It’s only if I truly fall asleep back there and the pack punches it that I hit the wind. That’s an own goal. Everything else about surfing the back feels fine in the races I’ve done. Another chance to actually test in just under 8hrs.

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:clown_face::tada::tada::tada::tada::arrow_down:. :rofl:

I’m sorry that I have not been able to compete as normal lately. I have been and am sick, and that affects my performance and ability to compete.
I hope and think my feedback is constructive and can be take into consideration.

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At least it’s still slower than pack of crazy supertuckers accelerating from the draft :smiley:

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Just to clarify is the strength of the draft related to your distance from the tip of the cone, regardless of how close you are to riders in front and around you ?

I would actually love to see a PD4 Pace Partner week. That would allow us to get a feel for the cone from in/out/front/back and play out breakaways or fall off the back without the stress of a ranking in a race.

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This are all Group Rides that use PD4…it shouldn’t be a lot different than PP

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Hum, either I’m misunderstanding the question or you’re confused :thinking:
The strength of the draft is dependant on how close you are to the rider(s) in front of you and diagonally. So to a certain degree, yes, the strength of the draft is related to the distance to the tip of the cone, so the distance to the tip of the cone and the distance to the rider(s) in front are directly related.

Almost there :wink:

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