Pack Dynamics 4 - Phase 3 [January 2023]

I will do it tommorow form 19h…first a warmup in Group Ride and the Test Race at 19:30.

Will post link here.


LIVE from 18:00 UTC

This looks the one! Great job @DavidP. Would be great to see how it behaves over the top (and descent) of Epic KOM.

Edit: Looks like supertuck isn’t working. Riders supertucking here (titans descent) who are clearly getting draft: Zwift Group Dynamics v4 Race! - YouTube

Next step and the next key one for pack speed control - appropriate corner speed.

Let’s hope so!

Edit: Looks like supertuck isn’t working. Riders supertucking here (titans descent) who are clearly getting draft:

I think what we are seeing is a ‘visual bug’. You see D. Cunningham complaining he’s not getting the super tuck while you see him super tucking. Definitely need to re-check that, because it will lead to all sorts of crazy complaints of unfairness. But for what matters the super tuck of your own player is acting correctly and that is the one that enters in the ‘calculations’. Still find it weird because with the bots all was working fine :thinking:

If you see here, it’s working as expected for your ‘own player’:


I’d say it’s a visual bug too and it happens in the current production version too. I can be DS’ing a race that my wife is doing with her display right beside mine and on her view she is supertucking while she isn’t on mine (or vice versa). Definitely want to fix that.

Otherwise I agree things look good and I am hoping to give it a go myself later today.


Only a small group of half a dozen of us in the C race at 1100 UTC this morning, but PD seemed to work very nicely. :+1::+1::+1:

I can confirm it’s a visual bug related with network bikes (other avatars around you) :smiling_face_with_tear: my bad :man_facepalming:

The good news:

  • it does not impact performance. If you see others around you super tucking while in the draft they aren’t actually super tucking, therefore it does not benefit anyone.
  • It should be an easy fix.


  • I’m starting to think this super-tuck feature should be disabled server side to avoid confusion and people thinking that the system is broken and they are being robbed of their downhill speed, etc. etc.
  • OR, with the help of whoever is reading this thread, spread the word out that this is only a visual bug that it does not impact speed or performance until it gets fixed.
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Option A. People don’t like being told that what they can see with their own eyes isn’t true.


Agree for option A

What would option A do for the single rider out front descending alone?

Option A (disabling it server side) is simply reverting to the default system (super tucking if power below 10w and speed above 56km/h regardless of draft)

Option B then… how long until it gets fixed do you think?

Sorry I’m probably missing something - but do you mean drafting (edit - supertuck) back for everyone ? I thought that is what you were trying to remove.

I’m only talking about super tuck. This is only a problem with super tuck visuals. So I’m considering disabling the change on super tuck being cancelled while drafting to avoid confusion. All else about Pack Dynamics 4 remains.

Thanks now makes sense. Yes Option A disable while work is concentrated on other areas of PD.

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I also vote for disabling the changes to super tuck until the visuals are fixed.

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I would say, for now leave the supertuck disabled even if the visuals are wrong, the turn outs are quite small at the moment so it would be good to test it still. Then fix the visuals down the road. Just let people know in the chat that’s what’s happening

I’m really interested to see how it works on a proper descent, lets say a race that goes up Box Hill. Does going all in over the little hump before fox hill descent, allow a rider to stay away on the decent. This would be a good outcome. Rather than the blob just sweeping them up.


Agreed, the supertuck changes are likely to be of great interest to lighter riders who tend to get spit out the back on descents.


I just finished the B category test. Allot better then previous tests. The overall feel in the pack seemed to be very similar to the current Zwift pack BUT the overall pace was slower. In previous tests the typical way I ride in a pack would leave me fighting the auto braking too much. That seemed completely better this time. The overall pace on the flat was down so the attacks at the front were more painful to the entire pack and the people attacking could hold out longer and build larger gaps. Overall, I have no real changes I would recommend to this version of dynamics. I think it would take more “normal” races with it to understand if an tweaks are needed. Right now it seems to slow the pack and make moves more meaningful and dangerous BUT the moves are still going to be very hard to make work. The best news is the overall pack feel didn’t seem off so we don’t have to “relearn” our riding style. Get us more events so we can do this more often and get to “normal” racing on it. Right now we are all crazy racing trying to feel the differences.


Yep, I’d call today 99% done from my experience. Easy to get out, easi(er) to stay out unless someone behind drives pace. Group chasing required hard work from everyone, gaps opened in the pack and splits could occur. Downhill wasn’t an ever increasing speed churning, and stopping pedalling meant slightly sliding back until you put a little power down. Conversely, very easy in the pack when the pace was off and relatively easy to move up/back and not hit the front if you didn’t want to :ok_hand: