The leaderboard has been fouled (I usually use a different word in this usage) up for a while, especially in London for some reason. It’s been going on for several months as near as I can tell. I’ll be in fifth wheel and it’s telling me I’m in 23rd. Or on twisty roads, riders behind me will suddenly appear on the LB ahead of me. During an event on Volcano Climb, riders coming down the hill were appearing in front then in back of me. It’s “One of those things in Zwift we all learn to accept.”
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Yeah that would be good . We can report back a like for like comparison . It will be a good test for this I think as groupings tend to be good as well as a odd breakaway effort to see if how that works out .
Having done 3 x Box Hill last weekend (my first such in a while)…I was really hoping for something flatter 
Yeah, that’s just something that happens (and has always been happening), and that the number at the top and the order of the list are updated out of sync with each other does not exactly make it any clearer.
It is not as bad as it used to be, now it can even handle lapped riders and some hairpin turns pretty well, but others (namely those in Watopia) still manage to confuse it.
Similar first impression here on a non event ride . Wasnt able to find any big groupings , in fact best I could find was a couple of riders to draft.
Sticky drafting seems much improved .
Holding draft , probably rather expectedly , now a bit more challenging with small groups , in my case 1 rider . You had to be really controlled to not slip the draft . I am hoping this will be much less of an issue with larger groups and the negative here will be a postitive , less fighting stickiness.
I am hoping this will start to allow slipping a breakaway from down the pack possible but not sure it will make a positive impact for holding a good breakaway versus a large peloton . TTT might need much more concentration and skill to get that right .
The Zwift insider article said one of the key improvements was your position on screen would actually match where you were so I was just over hopeful the number would also match!
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May be related to the game version people are on, and/or whether they’re in the event from a fresh login as recommended.
This was also my feedback from the test rides. With less sticky draft, it is harder to place yourself in the draft and stay there. I felt like I could have needed to use the brake to position myself in the draft and stay there. I would also think that this is less of a problem with higher speeds when a slight reduction in power makes a bigger effect on the speed and ability to control the position.
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I’m fan viewing C. Cadence and it looks really good. CC just overtook the DD group and went through them like a hot knife through butter.
Mmmmm… butter…
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Maybe in the long run the only solution to fully address the realism factor is to allow some sort of way to control if you want draft stickiness or no stickiness ( simulating brake controlling) .
For now though there is some optimism this is a better equilibrium , sticky draft was very negative . Slipping draft too easily is hopefully way less impacting and traumatic .
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The problem Zwift is left with now is to sense if the user wants to seek the draft, stay in the draft, or break out of the draft. The only way we can control that is by modulating the power and the acceleration. This will be the next challenge for Zwift to take the rider experience to the next level.
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Not a big problem, @Andrew_Johnson_C_CCC , but FYI there must have been some override in place that cancelled that. I think it’s a generalised problem across all Zwift group rides.
I tried joining the event twice, before the ride start, having paired the steering unit. Both times I got the ‘standard’ group message:
No one had steering, but this gave me a chance to have the standard PD 3.0 experience (all good). As soon as we hit the 60-minute mark, the steerer icon re-appeared and I was able to test the steering in a group of six for another 30 minutes.
While PD3.0 works really well for me (196, 85kg), some of my lighter TTT folks seem to experience the need to work a bit harder, e.g.
- large pack, 2wkg ride, sitting in front of beacon and at 2.5wkg everyone passes, as if no draft , then draft at tail is limited, 3wkg to get back to beacon even though within 10 meters just dropping like a stone.
- what is normally a 2wkg ride is 2.25 plus wkg, and I tested a slightly faster ride and got similar result , both riders were about 10-15 kg heavier. Virtually no sticky draft, and I’d to roll 10% harder than normal
- probably more realistic in that lighter riders needs to work a bit harder than leader to hold same pace even in pack.
Anyone experienced the same?
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TL;DR = PD 3.0 seem a success so far. Change is challenging, even when positive.
Did the ZZRC Sub 2.0 Ride (D) on the Greater London Loop a few hours ago.
In places where we were in concentrated bunches, the avatars moved much more naturally and smoothly than in previous versions of the PD, and there was more space around rider in general. Overall, it feels and looks less ‘nervous’. Happily, there didn’t seem to be any cases of avatars veering off to the right of the lane (in a left-hand drive world) for no apparent reason like we have seen earlier.
No other weirdness was experienced (except for a solitary super-weavy avatar, that got back to behaving normally after a while).
A couple of people mentioned that they found it harder to keep in the draft than before. I didn’t find it noticeable myself, but maybe I’m not as sensitive to the nuances. Perhaps riders of certain weights, using particular models of trainers, experience the new dynamics to a greater extent? But we have surely all developed instincts for riding with the previous PD, so it will take a period of adjustment until we are used to the new ones.
After the group ride ended, I tested steering (Elite Sterzo Smart) while riding in a small group of six. Again, it was less nervous overall. Certainly better than PD 2.0 (IIRC), in which I would be ‘pinged’ off the sides of riders that I would approach laterally, no matter how gently. There is something slightly odd (twitchy? it’s hard to describe) about some interactions with other avatars when trying to steer with accuracy very close behind or in front of others, but it’s hardly worth mentioning.
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UPDATE October 29 20:47 UTC
To echo Roule’s comment above, PD 3.0 rollout is going well. To that end, we have enabled Pack Dynamics 3.0 across the Makuri Islands.
The Yumezi map has narrower roads than other maps. During earlier testing, we found nitpicky details about pack movement to iron out. We’ve worked on those things, and we’re going to play test it with you all this weekend.
Do let us know if anything looks off? JK, I know you will!
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Did a Halloween pace partner ride today followed by a ride London map and saw the new PD. Found a it better than before. When riding solo another rider or a pair went by with room between us or pair split and went around then came back together. Riders with same w/kg next together or in line when approaching but not passing. Even subtle differences are visible between two riders.
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@shooj rode The Herd FriYay in London tonight. Pack dynamics were great during the ride but noticed something afterwards. Stayed in London on same route but my avatar would occasionally veer to the right (in the center of the road) for a second then come back to normal position in the group.
I was riding a Kickr Bike connected via Bluetooth with steering enabled but wasn’t using the steering functions when it happened. And it was only during the After Party.
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I have switched the Monday EVR races over to Flatland loop x 3 laps.
Sample size N=1 so YMMV.
EVR Classique x 6 laps. Ranked by power my race today was #14/48 (fourteenth of 48 races at that distance.) Ranked by duration my race today was #zbri-148
The duration for today was 50:23, which was about 45 seconds faster than any previous 47 races.
The size of the front group was about 40 dwindling down to about 20 by the finish. So not small but not terribly large either.
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