Micro burst and sticky watts

Whatever power source they’re using seems to hold onto watts a lot longer than my Neo2T does. They pause and it just stays where it was for what seems like a long time (relatively speaking). Or certainly doesn’t seem to drop much at all.

Never even tried it tbh but I instinctively feel like if I stopped pedalling when going up a steep incline like that I’d stop in no time, and be dropped instantly.

Edit: the cadence seems to be be a dead giveaway.

Alright, that’s definitely a lot more questionable.

Yeah. Neo 2T definitely does not hold the power for this long, nor does the power increase that quickly. I think it’s because of the “virtual flywheel” that the Neo has. Not sure though

I’ve hidden the post, not because of the video, but due to the implication that Eric Schlange has anything to do with this or condones it.

He might be a member of DIRT, but he’s not one of the owners/founders.

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I wonder if he has 380w ftp on the road/outdoor

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Yup, think I bought the wrong trainer :wink: :grin:

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Diretos (at least the recent ones) have a delay of 2-3 seconds. When you start pedaling it takes a few seconds for any watts to register on screen, but when you stop it also takes a few seconds for that to register. So you sort of break even. It only becomes noticeable/problematic in timing-sensitive efforts, like sprinting and super-tucking. I have a 90+ percentile sprint and like to go late, so it’s a PIA when another rider goes and I want to jump on their wheel right away. Situations like that, the delay can kill you. 2-3 lost seconds at 1000 watts is huge and it doesn’t matter if you get them back when the race is over.

Without knowing how recent this guys trainer is, how well he synced the video overlay of himself, what his trainer difficulty is, and how Zwift deals with constant power drops, it’s tough to form an opinion about him. In my case it doesn’t feel like free watts, just fools gold. Getting back watts you lost and burning yourself out with inefficiency.

Sorry, but except for the lack of the actual word ‘cheating’, in my opinion you were outing the rider for cheating in a race. Even the milder phrase that you used, “performing an exploit”, is in the on-line game world, usually a synonym for ‘cheating’.

And you associated Eric with this all on the thinnest of evidence (pretty much zero other than ‘on the same squad so surely must know and be involved’). If not, why did you mention Eric at all?

If none of that was your intention, then think much more carefully about your words in future. Funny asides in writing are far harder to convey then in the spoken world. You will read what you’re about to post/have posted with all the timing and inflections that you intended in your own head, but everyone else will read it without knowing how any of that.

That’s the biggest problem with all this WTLR and Zwift have DQ’d riders from using microburst technique but are unwilling to share an information on what is deemed cheating or not so it’s left all the other organisers in the dark on how to deal with it. Putting us all in a very awkward situation.

The recent example is far from the worst i’ve seen and personally if that was my race i probably wouldn’t DQ from that one effort but might have a quiet word as the pedalling technique does seem a bit unconventional and as has done resulted in finger pointing.

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A newbies take.
I’m pretty new to cycling. Took up outdoor and indoor at roughly around same time about 8 months ago due to a toe injury which prevents me from other sports I used to do. Had good base fitness and very good leg strength coming into it.
Some questioned my Zwift stats at the beginning and said my trainer etc wasn’t calibrated correctly and so on. I tried to explain I was new to cycling, not fitness and strength training. I wasn’t just getting off the couch after 10 years and hitting big numbers within a month.
I’m using a Wattbike Atom indoor & I got Assimo Duo’s to record outdoor rides and on a recent 123km Sportive ride they recorded Avg Power of 297w, which is in line with a lot of my Zwift rides depending on the type of ride.

One difference I have noticed between outdoor and indoor with regard to style of pedalling is that it’s far easier to change gear on the Atom than it is on my outdoor bike - especially going uphill.
So I find I can change into a big gear, stand and put in big power effort for as long as I can hold - maybe 10-20sec, then just sit back in saddle and slip into easy gear and spin the legs for a bit until maybe someone starts to come pass me :joy: & I click the button, which increases resistance in trainer ( no gears), stand and put the power in again for as long as I can sustain.
So I wonder if the physical difference between actual gears & resistance based shifting can alter someone’s pedalling style - I think I def shift more indoor than outdoor varying my cadence more.

And the Zwift dynamic of not having to worry about crashing into other riders means I would be more likely to do “micro sprints” in Zwift than I would IRL. I can literally ride “through” someone in Zwift - can’t just pick up pace like that in a group ride IRL.
I think sometimes we are trying to compare apples to oranges when comparing Zwift to IRL.
As I say, I started both around the same time, and find the dynamics completely different. About the only thing they have in common is it’s low impact physical exercise - which is why I took up both.
I had no cycling “style” developed from years of IRL riding before coming to Zwift. I just started doing both at the same time and started pedalling. Gave no consideration whatsoever to any of the many issues mentioned in this thread.

But my Avg Watts would seem in line with one another. I’m not doing low 200’s IRL and 300+ on Zwift.
Although I would expect Zwift to be higher due purely to the fact that safety is not an issue indoor. I can pour out everything into just pedalling without the distraction of making it home, balance, not crashing, avoiding other cyclists etc etc. From a pure training point of view I get more from Zwift - I can exhaust myself 100%
Outdoor is more for a bit of easy exercise and enjoyment of outdoors mostly. I don’t race or compete outdoor.

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true, they’re nothing alike, both in terms of physics and demands on the body. i personally don’t even consider zwift racing a viable competitive sport, as much as i enjoy doing it, for reasons both within and outside of the control of zwift

with that said though there is a written rule against abnormal pedalling styles in the zwift esports pdf. it’s vaguely worded but i’m quite certain that this specific technique is exactly the kind of thing that would get you DQ’ed and thrown off a premier league squad in a prize money race. of course the rules are not so strictly enforced in community racing and i don’t expect them to be either, people sometimes don’t know better and there is rarely anything at stake

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I know with my Kickr Bike there was no way I could just blast watts them ease off and get some little benefit.

Now with my injury it’s really bad, since I’m so slow if I stop turning the pedals even briefly then Zwift slams on the brakes and I’m stopped, with big effort to start again.

Due to some setbacks I have stopped using Zwift for now.

I suspect that my StagesBike SB20 may essentially do micro bursts because it allows me to shift between resistance levels more or less for free (minus some delay). I maintain relatively constant cadence, but to avoid drifting to the front of a group accidentally, I often shift up and down every second or two. It may be a similar effect to what’s discussed in this thread. Of course I would not do that on my real bicycle with a mechanical drivetrain, but also I wouldn’t need to because the physics of staying in a pack IRL are vastly different than in the game. The product design trains this behavior.

I don’t think it’s that different. Yes, Zwift has its quirks but you just need to be very attentive and use cadence the way you would IRL i.e soft pedal or surge as appropriate to maintain your desired position within the group.

Whilst, by definition this type of behaviour could be construed as micro-bursting, under these circumstances I don’t think it would count as an “unusual pedalling technique” intended to game the system and earn you a DQ. Using micro-bursts to bridge a gap or solo up a steep climb, on the other hand, is a very different matter.

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