Lower trainer difficulty for racing?

Depends on the results you’d like to see. I think you’d see plenty of interesting results without doing any of the things you specified. Also no one is “forcing” anyone to do anything in the hypothetical scenario I mentioned.

I thought you suggested Race organizers should control trainer difficulty, isn’t that forcing racers to do something.

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Race organizers would have the option to use the tool and racers would have the option to join whatever race format they choose. To assume all race organizers would put the difficulty setting to 100 for all races and racers would therefore have no choice is not a very likely scenario.

I would hope that option would never be possible, I think it would be unfair to have someone with a 56/48 and 11-21 race on 100% against someone with a 50/38 and 11-28.

But it is all up to Zwift to decide. We can just throw out ideas.

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Thats wont happen i bet. Will be sick…

This looks like a particularly high trainer setting

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I really am confused as to why cassette/ chainring is being brought into this.

In real life you get to choose your cassette and chainring. If you showed up to the deathride (www.deathride.com) with a standard and an 11-21 cassette you are going to have a hard time. Similarly riding a compact in a velodrome doesn’t make a lot of sense either.

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I’m in that for those who like to race, mimic everything as much as IRL. If you choose a flat race, have some close gearing ratios so you’ve your best cadance closely. If you choose a hilly race, be prepared with a correct gearing for your race. If you decide to set up your TT bike with a 56/48T with 21/11 cassette for a hilly race, you already know you’ll have a (very) hard one and probably ending somewhere far behind.

Zwift is still a “game” but if you choose to race, make the race like IRL. It’s not only fun but you might learn racing (shifting) that way also. What’s the point with some digital sliders so you don’t have to change gears if you choose a rolling route?! Go for a flat route then. Ok, when i say learning to race, it’s still a big difference than IRL racing but let’s say that changing gears is a real thing. Not riding with a fixie over hilly roads :slight_smile:

If Zwift wants to take those races more seriously, there’s still a lot more to change because the way it’s now, it’s just a fun factor and it’ll only be that. Those categories in races are just a laugh. The whole racing part, is just a laugh. Smile when you’ve passed the finish line. Don’t expect more.

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I think real zwift racing is and Will only be possible on live events.

Because I am not spending more money on chain rings just to race on Zwift. Also changing chainrings and derailleurs for every race is just unrealistic. That is why we have the difficulty slider. So we can adjust it for hilly races and for flat races.

The slider is there for every rider to use, if you think it is easier at 0% then use 0%.

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I get your point… you shouldn’t have to buy more cassettes to ride Zwift. Agreed. But this is a question of “is racing fair” which (I think) is different.

I still think a good answer is to give race organizers the option to set the trainer difficulty. Some races would use this option, others wouldn’t.

Another idea is to just simply share the trainer difficulty setting with Zwift Power so it could be used to filter the race results and give transparency. I totally concede that I might be completely wrong on this point and data/ facts could help.

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Yes it fair (talking about trainer difficulty here) every one has the option to use the difficulty slider as they want. So they can use it as they please. If you race IRL you have the option to choose your bike setup, no one is telling you what gears to use.

If a race choose to lock it at 100% then they will have to specify what trainer to use, some can only simulate a 7% incline. Some spin the flywheel on downhills. Sound like it will be come an elitist club.

If you want to make racing fair then there is many more important thing to consider, like people on Zwift power that still weigh exactly the same as in 2018 when they started. Or people entering lower categories because it is easier to win and take the fun away from 40 real racer that just want to race fair.

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Have the people who think low setting is an advantage actually tried it?

Even at lower settings you still end up shifting a good amount, it’s not a shift free experience in any way shape or form

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Or you could have different bikes :sunglasses:

bob

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More bikes! I think we have a solution we can all get behind here

Absolutely right , personally I think the purpose of indoor training is to simulate real road conditions .
I’m about 60 kg and love climbing my trainer difficulty is set to 100% .

In real life…

Races rarely start with everyone at 200% of FTP for 2 minutes.
You don’t have to over-push when overtaking a slower rider to avoid sticking with him.
You don’t have a 5-second lag between power changes and an impact on your position in the pack.
There’s wind.
You can control which side of the pack you ride in.
The personal data you put on your entry form does not change your performance.
You don’t get new bikes and wheels just by riding around.
When you pass the 200m marker, there is 200m left to go.
You don’t have to get on your bike on the road before you can decide which bike you’re going to ride and what you’re going to wear.
When you finish a ride, you can do another one without putting your bike in the garage, getting undressed and going to sleep.
Crits use the whole width of the streets.
You don’t get dropped when your ANT+/BT connection stutters.

And…

There are no power ups.

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Is everyone here on a really expensive trainer or what? Mine only has 6% max simulation and it stills feel really hard and at the end everything in zwift is about the w/kg… And 250W on a 10% climb are the same as 250W on a flat for your legs so it doesn’t matter…

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I am using a Kinetic Road Machine - T-001. Many years old. It is not a smart trainer but it has a sensor on it that when used with the Kinetic app calculates speed, cadence, watts, etc. Combine all of this with Zwift and power to weight ratios are generated. Which leads to other places.

Bob

There are some subtly meaningful differences that have been mentioned that are not ‘just’ gearing.

But where it really matters is descending. If you spin out downhill, you can easily lose a race. Lower resistance (my guesstimate is 2/3 or lower) means you can keep pedaling on most descents.

Being able to restrict the difficulty for races would be a nice feature to have.