Limit or remove zPower from big races (ZTR / KISS)


(L M [X]) #1

zPOWER setup to people doing 450watt and 150bpm for 40 min. destroys the races. You need to limit this or put them out of the way for the A racers. This destroys the group dynamics. zPower may have their own race, with fantasy figures similar to Tony Martin.


(Juan Ferres [BRT]) #2

While i completely agree with you, please r efer to specific people rather than starting a general crusade.

Are you talking about the yesterday race “ZTR Thursday Training Race (UK-Europe)http://www.zwiftpower.com/v2/race.php?id=663 ? Zwiftpower worked wonders and he is already last in the result list.

The zwiftpowers riders that compete each other every day/week are usually well know.

Please, beware of collateral damage and accusing zwift-cyclists who use ZPower legally.

After +8000km riden in Zwift and 26 oficial races/sessions on ZwiftPower this is my humble opinion:

  • Biggest manipulable data on races is the rider weight. Just 1 kg made a big difference in the long run.
  • Tire pressures in no direct drive trainers
  • Disk wheel setup must be removed from races (that is not currently available for new riders and unfair)
  • Not all power meters are reliable or calibrated
  • Powermeters are different from SmartTrainers (some of them like Tacx Neo can even simulate downslope)
  • Power metering based on algorithms (PowerPods, Real Turbo Muin, and so on) 

These small details are too dangerous and also have the ability to alterate results being much more difficult to detect than totally unrealistic configurations ZPower.

Please, put yourself on the place of someone like me. Owning original Elite Turbo Muin with original Elite speed/cadence sensor (power computed by Zwift not trainer!) and forced to read now and then, that zPower riders are cheating. I love racing on ZwiftPower, i am improving, losing weight and having a great time under a competitive environment.

If you ban all zPower users from races, it’s going to be and indiscriminate and unfair solution. For sure, will upgrade to an smart trainer or install an powermeter, but the Turbo Muin fluid system is thebest for my injured knee.

Sorry for the length of this post.


(L M [X]) #3

I agree with some of your points, but also disagree with you on several points. Zwiftpower does not fix this problem, the results are one thing, this happens almost every week sometimes the same person also different users. The point is in-game experience, cycling dynamics. This is: collateral damage  for other riders in the A-Pack.   If you attack you are covered by a zPower user, if you go in breakaway you are paced or covered by zPower user. If you haven`t experienced lying first in an A group and attack again and again to then be run in by a zPower user, you may not know the real problem here. Rarely or never is a zPower user in the A group which is actually calibrated. If you race in A you most likely have a power meter or smart trainer. (This is not entry level for most) To this point I have not seen a zPower user in top 10 with actual correct calibration that make sense. (who use ZPower legally)


(Juan Ferres [BRT]) #4

Lars, i fully understand your concern. I hope that a solution can be found in-game for detecting those players -anyone, not only zPower ones-  and remove them instantly from scheduled race. But i think that is going to be a hard work. Maybe somekind of data analysis in order to detect if your data can match a real cyclist (impossible RPM, BPM, sustained power, and so on). But this could lead to false-positive and angry customers. 

In order to point another problem with races i will add: as B rider, we see our cycling race spoiled for B riders taking advantage  of A group draft. Please, push harder in the beggining on your A group and don’t let B riders stay with you! :slight_smile:


(L M [X]) #5

Hehe, well I think a lot of the B guys actually can race A =) but for some, the 2 first minute is just not possible, for other B rider the first 2 minutes are hard but manageable.(depending on weight) Do, I can see your point, B riders that are heavier cruising with A`s after a solid start.

A more controlled start might reduce the “Bang from the gun”, even just a master for 2 min/2 km might change the culture.

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208789023-Use-master-CAR-for-controlled-start-KISS-ZTR

 

 


(Brandon Amos) #6

I think if you create a race then you should be able to specify the technical requirements of the event, and therefore restrict people using zpower or not using heart rate monitors.

I also think you should be able to specify whether only controllable devices are used, preventing the use of non controllable power meters.

Summary, if you create a race you control who can enter it.


(Jason Linares) #7

Jummmm, this explains how being myself a 5W/kg cyclist (@180 ppm), sometimes I just can’t keep up with people hammering 500 watts @ 150 bpm…I said to myself…"Man, you are just not good enough, or Tonny Martin is in the block!!!)… I agree, please remove them


(De Mac) #8

The whole idea behind zPower is to enable EVERYONE to get onto the platform.  I own a smart trainer and power meter now, but only a basic trainer when I first started - in May, 2015.  If I wasn’t able to enjoy the Zwift experience earlier, I would not be using it now.  Additionally, it is a bit of a stretch to try, as a subscriber, to limit the availability of the platform to those who only have a power meter and/or smart trainer.


(L M [X]) #9

You have probably misunderstood here or not read the entire post. If you compete in front of a A race (not entry-level) you use so much time on cycling that one can expect that you have a smart trainer or power meter (not zPower). Tacx Satori smart cost € 190 … if you are in front of group A with zPower, there is a greater chance that you have not adjusted / calibrated correctly.


(L M [X]) #10

For information they now have already placed some barriers/limitations for zPower to limit these situations. You’ll see users with zPower be limited to max 400 Watt regardless of how much they paddle.(rpm) I am unsure if this is restricted by watts per kilogram or watts itself. Nathan has shown this in several streams.