Keiser M3


(Rob Vaughan) #1

Are there any plans to make Zwift compatible with the Keiser M3?


(Stuart Davis) #2

I don’t see how they could. There is no proper power reading or known resistance curve. Hell, the resistance at level n can vary 100% between two different bikes!!


(Glen Sansoucie) #3

I have a Kaiser M3 that gathers dust.  They have a completely closed system so there is no way to get data out of the device.  You might be able to connect a Speed and Cadence sensor, but it’s a spin bike.  List it on Craigslist and get a smart trainer.


(Rob Vaughan) #4

Thanks for the advice. However I find it a fantastic bike to ride and the solution was to put vector pedals on it. Not cheap but they’ll go on my outdoor bike in the Summer!


(Stuart Davis) #5

That’s a good shout - I’d be interested to read how the Keiser bike’s power reading compares to the Garmin!


(Rob Vaughan) #6

Stuart. The Vector reading is much lower. But judging my the average speed it’s giving me on Zwift much more accurate. The Keiser M3 power is about 50w higher (200 v 150 approx). Keiser really need to work on their computer and make it accurate and compatible. 


(Stuart Davis) #7

Yes that’s what I would’ve expected from my experience using an M3, I would have guessed their power is between 50 and as much as 100 watts out, depending on your cadence and which bike out of 20 I choose in the gym!


(Zachary Cardoza) #8

Hello.  I’m an engineer with Keiser, and I’m glad to see so much interest around utilizing the Keiser M3i with Zwift.  To clarify some of the concerns I see listed, the classic M3 is not able to work with any systems as there is no radio within the computer.  The new M3i, however, does have a Bluetooth radio which utilizes the Bluetooth 4.0 spec which can theoretically be bridged to ANT+.  It is also theoretically possible for support to be added within Zwift to utilize an external Bluetooth dongle, but I do not want to speak for Zwift on this topic as I do not know of their technical limitations or intents.

As for the accuracy, the classic M3 has had several iterations over it’s 7 year life, so it is difficult to diagnose without knowing the exact model.  A call to Keiser Support [1(800)888.7009] might be beneficial to diagnose any accuracy issues you are experiencing.  The new M3i was actually the first bike to pass ISO 20957-1 which has a very tight mandate for power accuracy, and which we have yet to see any other indoor bike pass. 


(Rob Vaughan) #9

Thank you for the feedback re the Keiser. It looks as if I got mine just before the m3i came out. I wasn’t aware there was a new model. As I said in my original comments, it’s a great bike to ride and I’m just glad I haven’t had to replace it with something else - I went back to a turbo trainer for a week or two and hated it!


(Zachary Cardoza) #10

If the M3 you purchased was within a few months of the release of the M3i, there is an upgrade kit that can be purchased that will add the Bluetooth computer and the more accurate magnet assembly.  There is a very tight window of bikes which are able to be upgraded, but you might be in that window.  You would need to contact support in order to find out for sure if you are compatible with the upgrade kit.


(Loureiro Rodrigo) #11

Can the Keiser M3i be liked to the Zwift mobile app? The Zwift mobile app can pick up BLE from my powertap hubs and integrate it to Zwift.

Does the M3i transmit power over BLE so it can be picked up by mobile apps on your phone?

In theory this would work with the Zwift mobile app or even Cycleops virtual training, as long as the Keiser M3i uses the standard BLE protocol.

Zachary, is this possible?

I’d buy one if that works !!!


(Zachary Cardoza) #12

Unfortunately, there is no “standard BLE protocol” for indoor bikes.  There is a standard for power meters, however this protocol does not allow for the added information our bike computer produces, and does not allow the multi-device capabilities that we have worked into our bike.

We do have our protocol available at https://dev.keiser.com/m3i/ for anyone to implement, and we have contacted Zwift about adding support for the M3i.


(chip tonkin) #13

I am close - bought the Wahoo speed and cadence sensors ($60). Easy to install and give me what I need to connect to the game (and I can use manual resistance to calibrate to appropriate (or at least reasonable) approximation for incline. The only issue is getting the speed right - my thought was to use wheel size to fine tune the speed, but I don’t have enough range with typical wheel sizes. I only have (2) places to measure speed: flywheel and pedal rotation. Flywheel is way too fast and I would need enter about a 6" wheel DIA to properly correct and pedal rotation is too slow and would need about 60" DIA to make the speed appropriate.

So if I could enter arbitrary wheel sizes or there was some sort of "gearing correction (ie. 2x), then I could make the kaiser work quite well. I know people say it is not a real trainer, but it is a great for those of us that must coexist in a household because it is so quiet (I can even do it in the same room with others watching TV) and it looks really good sitting in a corner (almost like a piece of art).


(Steven Nelson) #14

A simple solution for using any Spin Bike with Zwift if to install Powertap P1 Pedals.  They work great and can turn any spin bike into a great Zwift compatible bike.  I ride the Lemond RevMaster Pro, which gives me a dedicated, quiet and sturdy bike to pass the long winter hours on Zwift.


(Matt Stewart) #15

I have a Keiser M3i(X).  Given that it captures speed, cadence and power I’d love to see it get integrated to Zwift.  The M3i is already compatible with bkool, but everyone I know uses Zwift.  Would be nice to be able to “ride” with them on Zwift instead.


(Paul Allen) #16

This might solve the issue for all unsupported indoor trainers: https://4iiii-innovations.myshopify.com/collections/power-meters/products/precision-powermeter


(Quinten Koekenbier) #17

Hi Zwift,

In our office gym we have 8 keiser m3i bikes, and we love to get this connected to zwift, but as I read here this is not yet compatible.

Could you integrate their protocol with the zwift app. We would be delighted if that would be made available.

 

kind regards,


(Eric Talley) #18

I’d like to see Keiser M3i support provided within Zwift too.  The M3i is consistently rated the highest quality dedicated spinning bike, and it therefore has a pretty loyal installed base of customers.  (I bought one about 6 months ago, and it’s incredibly well designed, sturdy and whisper quiet).  The bluetooth radio seems like a natural fit for Zwift integration, and the very basic app they provide for ride stats works very well.  Moreover, Keiser appears to have a pretty open AppDev page, so I’m not sure I buy the argument that Keiser doesn’t cooperate with outside vendors.

Rather than continuing to wait, I decided to purchase Powertap P1 pedals for my Keiser, which is a good workaround I guess, but it’s awfully expensive for a stationary that already has Bluetooth capabilities (which are, I should note, priced into the cost of the bike!)

One small issue (which others have mentioned too) is that when I ride and compare the wattage measurements, those reported by the Keiser seem a little higher than what the P1s transmit.  If my experience is any indication, the discrepancy is now less severe than it was with older models: about a 10-15% relative wattage premium in Keiser.  I obviously can’t tell if this is due to inaccuracy in the Keiser system, inaccuracy in the P1s, or a little bit of both; but I also suspect that small calibration biases are a generic problem with all smart trainers and wattage devices, and thus this is a solvable problem that Zwift engineers confront routinely.


(Arman Rivard) #19

Looks like I am in the same boat, or on the same bike. New M3i for xmas. Of course the strong point was the advertised Bluetooth. Somehow I’ve grown to expect at least some app connection compatibility. I would rather not have to start adding Wahoo devices or some very expensive pedals. I did buy Bluetooth. It connects to my iPhone. That’s all. The bike itself is very high quality, I love riding it, but aside from watching Nextflix the computer and monitor setup are a bit wasted. Bkool says there’s a Windows 10 issue they can solve in a release due next month. I hear good things about Swift and would really like to see some integration. I think the rep posting the theoretical or offering that someone else take on the task is not very supportive.

 


(Arman Rivard) #20

Bkool released a new version yesterday. Apparently they found out how to fix the Windows 10 issue with bluetooth. I can now see the bike, I’ve joined a couple of training sessions and it’s a bit strange calculating my speed but I can at least get online. I also downloaded a new Zwift version just now. Can’t see the bike…