Is attacking ever going to be rewarded?

Racing
1

I’ve long since accepted that the sit in → sprint is the only racing tactic nowadays, unless it’s a hilly course, then its a TT, but I was wondering if there is any word of attempts to get people putting effort in mid-race?

Should Zwift at least try to make something happen to enhance that part?

My ideas :slight_smile:

  • If you lead the pack for more than 60s an automatic burrito is enabled for 60s
  • If you create a 10s gap you get double draft for 3 minutes
  • Player with the majority time in front gets a special jersey for the duration of the race
  • 3 breakaways that create a 10s gap and you win the race

Thanks for listening to my bed talk.

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2

double draft only help if there is 2 riders. that would only help the 2nd rider. think before you type.

3
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4

They can also support more race formats such as elimination races, and points based races (for getting sprint and KOM points etc). That would force folks to go harder in the middle of a race before the end as well.

Edit: Though i like the idea of a combativity award, or a ‘domestique’ award for pulling more etc.

5

For races only:

  • Give breakaway riders a 2 minute big aero boost
  • Give following groups (who aren’t attacking) greater sticky draft and reduce the aero benefits for the group

This would help Make Racing More Exciting™

Alternatively you could just give everyone no draft and it becomes a big group time trial. Whoever attacks the most with most power wins. But that wouldn’t be fun, would it? And the results would be rather predictable.

6

It means when the pack inevitably catch you, which they will, you get the reward of a very elongated recovery period.

Now, would you like to tell us all who hurt you?

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7

I think using the draft is a critical part of making racing fun, and the dynamic does work, in general.

To extend your idea, maybe your draft decreases over time, from 100% to 50%, and powers back up if you take the lead?

8

Ban. The. Burrito.

2 Likes
9

Haha, is that because you’ve experienced the one where someone in the chase doesn’t know what it is and uses one which results in the whole pack being dropped further?

10

What about BOP for races?

Just as in car races, very successful competitors have a Balance Of Performance adjustment to Make Racing More Exciting™?

11

No, its because I dont like negatively impacting others in the game.

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12

oh god no.

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13

Fair point, maybe the PU could make just the rider undraftable rather than area effect then.

14

Double draft won’t work but reduced rolling resistance x3 min would.

15

The simple and most realistic thing is corner speed is reduced by pack size. Riding solo? You get to go through corners at max speed. Riding in a bunch 10 riders wide? -10km/h for you.

7 Likes
16

Solo riders should also be slowed - they should not be going through sharp turns at 80-90km/h (on big downhills).

But yes your idea is a good one, have the typical yo-yo effects of big groups coming into corners and being slowed down a lot. That would be realistic, but do people want things that realistic?

If there was steering, braking and collisions/crashes in racing that could achieve the same result, but I guess nobody wants that.

17

They specifically said they were going to do this a while back, but that change never materialized for some reason. Personally I’d prefer if cornering were a bit more realistic in terms of speed, I certainly can’t take sharp hairpin corners at 80km/h myself.

It would make sense to me if big groups had to slow a bit more than solo riders on tight corners as well, not sure if that would be enough to help a solo breakaway on most courses, though maybe it would add a bit more tactics to some courses.

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18

Do what they do in World Tour races. Get some camera motos to give the breakaway riders draft in Zwift. :wink:

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19

Only needs to be done in races though. It would be silly in 200-300 mega groups in normal riding.

But how far do you go in messing with the pace of a big pack before it becomes unrealistically skewed in benefit of one or two breakaway riders?

Maybe you could make it harder for bigger riders in packs to be able to overtake smaller riders at similar speeds, that might help to reduce the speed. That is artificial as well, but if it helps the breakaway?

Eventually you must concede that big groups will naturally be faster because more people can do the work. While the one or two on their own have to work much harder with less opportunity to rest.

Unfortunately in Zwift bike handling plays no part. Maybe need steering, braking and virtual crashes to bring another element to races and breakaways. Sim racing manages it okay. If folks deliberately crash others out they get banned.

It would need everyone to have more precise steering and braking controls.

It would be different, not just who can suffer for longest, but who is the “alien” who can also steer and brake at the limits too.

Packs would naturally be slower as well. Tactics would become important too, being in the right place, following wheels and knowing what gaps you can go for (or not). Sprint finishes would be very exciting.

20

If this were the reason that big packs have always been faster it would be fine. Unfortunately previous pack dynamics versions have seen big packs being faster even when no one is working hard on the front. Riders being able to ride into and through each other gave excessively high draft value because of the impossibly low distances. Client side positioning and speed processing meant that two riders could simultaneously draft each other.

The lasest pack dynamics seems to have made this more natural, and pack speeds are down as a result. At least when no one is forcing the pace high at the front.

Part of breakaways not working is simply the nature of the races. They are generally so short that people shut down all dangerous moves quickly. A solo rider might be able to get a few seconds, but if anyone tries to join them they’ll be joined by everyone in the pack capable of doing so.

1 Like