High Meters

It isn’t right to get high meters in a Workout in erg mode. You collect HM and do nothing special for that, it should be turned of I think.

Nope. You still have to produce the same power. Next you’ll be saying people have to set trainer difficulty to 100%. Also nope.

Welcome to the forum.

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I allways choose a course with few HM, because I don’t want collect wrong HM. But if you say it isn’t, its okay for me, Thanks.

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You should also not getting distance (km) on a stationary bike because you are not moving forward.

Doing a ERG workout up the epic KOM is just as much effort as doing in in free ride.

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Is that if you are doing a workout on your own?

I recently did a group workout up ADZ at around 2.03 w/kg approx 48 mins with the group and 16 minutes on my own after group workout finished. Total time for the climb circa 64 minutes.

The last time I did exactly 2.0w/kg up the ADZ in July with a Robo Pacer on Summit Seeker (max 1 or 2 other riders around us on the climb) it took 89 minutes.

Is there a time or speed benefit by doing a group workout where I am one of the weaker riders in the group ?

Most group workouts are banded which will result in that kind of outcome. My wife did a sub-hour Alpe at around 1.5W/kg in a banded ride.

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I thought par example a Workout in the dessert with 50 HM for one round with 200 or 100 w it doesn’t matter you have still 50 HM on the other hand a steep course with ERG MODE is much easier than without ERGMODE and still have the same HM.
I’m really doesn’t know for sure ore mine thoughts are the Right one, it was just a feeling, that it was easier to get HM but if I am rong I collect HM with a Workout as well.

Thanks

There are many who argue that it is simply a matter of adding up wattages. But in reality there is a big difference between riding a bike up a mountain or on a flat road. Even if you pedal with the same power. Cycling uphill requires good shifting tactics and provides little wind cooling, which means the body reacts completely differently. With 200W I can move smoothly on a flat road. But there are mountain roads that are so steep that with 200W you are more likely to roll backwards. On a flat road you experience micro breaks and your 200W is an average between 0W and … On steep mountain roads it is completely different, the load is constant there. If you have a good turbo trainer and want to start from a standstill on a very steep slope, there is a good chance that you will not even be able to get the pedals moving with 200W unless you have many gears and are shifted correctly. Unless of course you set the resistance bar to zero. If I ride around on Zwift with Maria or Coco on the flats for 1 or 2 hours at 180W-215W, I go into the shower whistling afterwards. But if I cycle up AdZ with approximately the same power, I am tired.

Additional: if you use power pedals, you should compare a certain average wattage between climbing or flat roads. The power vector shifts and with it the load on muscles.
Also: 10 reasons riding climbs feels different (to riding on flat) *at the same watts* - CyclingApps.net (Fastfitness Group)

Happy new year and ride on!

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100% this
it is much harder to actually ride up a steep incline for an hour than to have a workout keep you at a certain wattage.
having the resistance get harder and easier as the gradient changes requires shifting, and on some of the steepest sections it is just really hard even in the easiest gear. Workout mode, just keep a steady cadence and away you go.
both might average 200 watts but the workout 200 watts feels easier.

I’m sure others will disagree but this is definitely how it feels to me

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I totally agree with you, because on a real climb you will find sections when you are not in the correct gear and just power it out. But if you were good at changing gears and you could change to the correct gear and keep your power around 200w then it would be the same effort.

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The difference you are talking about here, though, isn’t really the difference between indoors/trainer and outdoors, it is the difference between doing a workout in erg mode vs sim mode.

Indoors will never be the same as outdoors, of course; but if you want all of those subtleties just switch off erg mode for the workout.

The real point is the difference between elevation meters or flat meters. If it’s only reducing speed by a certain amount of Watts instead of different muscle load. When do you “earn” elevation meters? If you pedal at 200W on a flat road and stop for 5-7 seconds your speed will drop down a little. Even without shifting gears you can resume easily. If your climbing steep and stop pedaling for 5-7 seconds you’ll probably come to a standstill. Resuming will be pretty hard.

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And isn’t it the same in Zwift, if using sim mode? The muscle loading is a bit different, unless using something like the Kickr Climb, but it’s certainly harder to get going again (at least from a power perspective) on a climb in Zwift than on the flats. You don’t have to worry about tipping over, I suppose, but getting rolling on a climb (in sim mode) is harder.

Should you also only get credit for climbs when on 100% trainer difficulty?

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There’s no end to the scenarios where people ride without proper gradient simulation. Mag trainers, most spin bikes, even smart trainers with very small max gradient simulation. Zwift is not going to exclude these riders from the in-game rewards. Not happening ever.

I tend to stay on flat routes when doing workouts purely so my brain does not get confused. My mind can compute doing a hard interval on the flat as IRL its just the same as smashing out a big gear or clinging on to the big boys in the chain gang.

However, if doing a workout up a hard climb my brain & legs get kerfuzzled during the recovery intervals as visually i am computing that it should be tough but my legs are experiencing easy.

Maybe it’s just the way i am wired. :smile:

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It’s not just you and it’s one of the reasons folk have asked for workout-specific routes (also apparently coming Zoon © )

We are all different, If I do Zone 2 workouts i prefer the flat roads, but the long Zone 3 and above I prefer riding on a climb, the Epic KOM is perfect for a long Fat Max (Z3) workout. What gets me is when the workout is longer than the climb and I have to do Z3 on the downhill :astonished:

But it is all a personal preference, you can put a MTB on the trainer at 100% TD and spin at 80rpm 200w all the way up the alpe.

Yes, this is right. And on ADZ in the workout mode you are not experiencing the shifts in gradient from near flat (out of the hairpins) to 14%.

I was using workout mode to test level up and on the climbs it was much easier, you simply spin at 80rpm with no need to shift gears or end up grinding up a steep gradient. While an ADZ lap of 52 minutes using the TT bike was very demanding yesterday. Similar power, but you have to shift gears and adjust cadence all the time.

This topic is always a hornets nest when it is brought up. Never mind not counting workout mode laps for the leaderboard.

Tempus is perfect for workout mode, it loops around endlessly and is flat. But it doesn’t give people the elevation they want for the Tron bike. :wink:

It would be interesting to see how many people would still do workouts up big climbs if XPs were still awarded just for distance and not by time.