FTS / Fastest Through Segment; detrimental to racing?

Just wondering what others think about this. We can use the upcoming ZRL race as an example with the very long segment but it also applies to most KoMs. FTS has double the points of FAL there so this is more important for overall result. What increases likelihood of obtaining the points? Staying in the draft for as long as possible. Ideally one also starts from the back or even at a small gap.

All that makes racing boring as it’s the anti thesis of attacking. It encourages staying in the group and before some segments even hitting the brakes (as likely coming Tuesday). Attacking is harder, more fun but is not rewarded as the FAL scores less, especially for segments only ridden once. Particularly an issue with power categories than A as you know max WKG someone can put out and you know blob will get him or her back. At least in A at times there is more variation and attacks at random points.

So, to encourage better racing I’d argue it’s better to get rid of FTS in races. At very least for segments that are not ridden multiple times. Better to extend number of places that score for FAL so sprinting is beneficial to entire peloton (which should also be more run !).

Anyway, wondering what others think. Not sure if argued before but couldn’t quickly find it.

1 Like

The counter argument has always been it gives the back end of the race something to race for, as they could still score points in terms of sprints or hills. (ignoring the blob effect that means that front group speed is normally enough to ensure they take FAL & FTS).

FAL tends to double reward those who place highly.

Im kind of meh to the arguments of both…

Fix the game design to allow for tactics and breakaways to be successful.
Fix racing categories so people dont have to feather their power for fear of improving - sorry I mean getting upgraded.


If you do a segment once, then there are 55 FAL points, and 72 FTS points on offer (i think - did it in my head, but will be close enough!). If you do it twice, then 110 FAL and 72 FTS. So not quite as you are portraying.

I actually do agree that it doesnt really make any sense for a segment that isnt a sprint. The front wins the lot on climbs, the big blob wins the lot on anything in between.

How often is the blob not the front of the race, especially through a timed sprint segment?

FAL winners tend to also hoover up higher finishing points hence its the double bubble.

Stan, I’m involved with a series that is FTS and finish points only in the summer, in the winter we do one that is no categories, no points. Both are fun, and they’re different.

If you don’t like the points in ZRL (and I don’t think they do their points well, to be honest) just do other races. There are lots.


My topic stating detrimental is overstating it a bit. Merely wanted to argue that it makes races more boring than needed. It does not make it no fun but it does make it tactically smarter to stay in the blob. Which I personally find more boring (ride in a blob and sprint at the end). ZRL is still fun as one races versus the same people (and with) every week but it can be improved. With this topic was merely wondering if others agree with reasoning that it makes racing less fun than it could be. Besides other issues affecting racing of course… but this could be a quick win.

So - I think part of the problem in ZRL is that they don’t scale their points - in races with lots of segments, the race is often decided without finish points.

Herd Summer Racing & some of the Autumn races are 2/3 points on FTS segments, 1/3 on finish position, 1 point per place on all the segments, scaling so whatever multiplier is applied to the finish is also applied to the point increment at the finish. It seems to work pretty well for balanced racing.

We ran the Fuego Reverse segment in that series a couple of times this year, and it was interesting how it played out in some races.

Especially when some idiots gave themselves A LOT to do :slight_smile:

@Lee_H - Just raced in APAC on the long segment. I know this is not the norm but have to say it was interesting on how everyone approached it. Made it interesting.

I think overall Craig hits the nail on the head - Its not detrimental at all if the points are scaled to make it interesting HSRL (and autumn league, winter league and no doubt spring league!) do it really well. Every place counts and the race is rarely decided before the finish.

1 Like

@Ally_Loney - Thanks bud. Have to credit those who came before in Herd Racing as well - but need to add, no points in Winter league, just finish. No categories either. Great chance to mix it up, you should try it - I don’t think you did much HWR last year.