Final Word on Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+


(A. Yuet) #41

Julian & Guy,

You can pair what you want (more options) when using ANT+ but not in Bluetooth. In ANT+ you can specify what to pair for Power, Cadence, Speed, Heart Monitor, Controllable Trainer.

If you use Bluetooth as connection to Zwift you only get power source and controllable trainer.

For those who are spinning out on flats and not getting enough resistance, I’ve read there’s issues when with Bluetooth connection in Freeride mode. If you use ANT+ connection instead you will get more resistance. I’ve tried both ways and yes, ANT+ works better.

For those who want to customize their P1, P2, P3 values or want to “Send map to trainer” or “Read map from trainer” and getting timeout errors in the My E-Training iOS App, the my I figured a way that works for me most of the time. Information transfer seems to work best when the trainer is first powered on. So first make sure you’ve previously paired your trainer to My E-Training App. Your trainer (CSC sensor serial) should appear on the top of Advanced configuration. Unplug your trainer. If you want to change P1,P2,P3 values, click on it and enter the values. Then plug in trainer so it starts up. You will hear the motor buzz and see a flashing light. Press “OK” on app quickly as the trainer is powering on and the new P1,P2,P3 values should upload rather quickly. It should tell you on he app if upload/flash was successful or complete and the blinking light on the trainer will stop. It’s not a guarantee that it’s uploaded/flashed. I usually do this 3 times just to be sure. And the last time leave the trainer on for 15mins before unplugging. I do this because some people say it takes up to 15 minutes for the update to complete. I cannot confirm or deny this but I do it anyway just to be safe.

“Send map to trainer” and “Read map from trainer” also seems to work best when trainer is powering on.

Since calibration depends on combined rider weight and bicycle weight, I found a post by Angelo Ferulli who commented on Athletic Tech Review’s youtube video on how to calibrate this trainer. In his post he mentioned a spreadsheet he made using math equations to help calculate more realistic P1,P2,P3 values. All you need to enter on the spreadsheet is rider’s weight and bike’s weight to get a good starting point for P1,P2,P3 values. I was able to obtain the spreadsheet, not through Angelo, but through someone else who contacted him and received the spreadsheet. I was hoping with his permission I could possibly upload it on a shared link for everyone to use.

Quote:

Angelo Ferrulli

“Dear all, I implemented a spreadsheet for calibration of parametrs P1 P2 and P3 of Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+. This calculation simulate the power required riding a climb with a slope including the friction with ground and friction with wind. Yesterday I tried these value and they work very good. The spreadsheet requires only the total weight (bike plus user). The final calculated parameters P1, P2 and P3 are more realistic than default values. If someone want to try this approach please contact me I can send it free by email or please indicate here your weight (bike+user) and I will send the parameters. My default parameters on trainer was P1=171W, P2=186W and P3=155W. I weight 75Kg plus 9 Kg of bike, in total 84Kg, the new calculated parameters are P1=242W, P2=227 and P3=173W.”

 


(Guy Sanders) #42

Hi Yurt, my total is 94kg. Would you be able to let me know roughly what my values should be.
Thanka


(A. Yuet) #43

Calibration Spreadsheet for Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+ Trainer - by Angelo Ferrulli

I believe Factory Settings for the trainer is 

P1=265 watts

P2=259 watts

P3=155 watts.

Factory Default P value “display” in the app is not the same as current P values. The default display values of P1=171, P2=186, P3=155 never change even though you upload the new P values. I suppose you can “Read map from trainer” in order to find out the actual current P values.

 


(Gerrie Delport TeamODZ) #44

Just remember those calibration values is to account for the differences in trainer manufacturing. 


(Robert Jones) #45

The latest Myetraining ap does appear to save newly inputted P1, P2 and P3 values. When I switch to Zwift the difference can clearly be felt. I am currently using P1 291, P2 298 and P3 217(original settings P1 166, P2 186 and P3 158). After use in Zwift if I then go back to Myetraining ap the settings have stayed as I changed them. Switching the power off the trainer does not make it revert to the original settings for P1, P2 and P3. The settings I used are ones successfully used by another Zwifter. The Zwift “experience” is certainly improved. I am not really bothered too much about accuracy, a Power Meter would be an unnecessary burden to my bank balance, as I am sure it would be for the majority of Zwifters who just want to get fit and have a good experience. I still spin out on short sprints but it is definitely an improvement on what was happening before, Road Runner on steroids :wink: My bike is always left in top gear (21 speed) so I don’t have the option of changing up a gear to get a bit more resistance. My average speed is about 22 miles an hour which is a couple more than with the original settings. I may invest in a bigger chainring as mine is 42T… check the current settings on your trainer with the Myetraining ap, write them down and give it a try. You can definitely put the settings back to the original if you want to. When reading/writing values to the trainer, don’t give up after the first attempt, it usually takes more than one attempt for mine to “take”. Not sure why, the ant+ receiving sensor is very close to the trainer. It often takes 4 attempts before I have to try re-pairing etc.  But everything works fine on Zwift pairing. 


(A Myller @MoodCycling) #46

Happy Friday… happy Zwifting using bluetooth. Not sure if you all saw it but Zwift has fixed a bug with the Qubo and bluetooth having low resistance. I saw the update on the iPhone. Thank you Zwift


(Robert Jones) #47

Hi Myller, searched everywhere for the update, cant find it anywhere, do you have a link?


(A Myller @MoodCycling) #48

Robert, I noticed in the iOS and TVOS App Store. It updated today for Apple TV and for my Iphone/iPad. Just go into the App Store and update it or notice that it updated. Lots of fixes. Qubo was one of the fixes. Nice that Zwift put in the dev work with the Qubo.


(Robert Jones) #49

Thank you Myller, will give it a try :slight_smile:


(A Myller @MoodCycling) #50

I finally tried out the update last night. And yes… much more resistance. Before i would run out of gears on 0% gradient at 400watts and 100-110rpm. Now I am able to push another 200-300 Watts. Doing about 150watts at 85-90rpm I’m on the 3rd biggest ring on the rear cog. Before, I would be in the middle or closer to 3rd smallest gear in rear cog


(Robert Jones) #51

I need to get a new chainring. Mine is only 42T on a 21 speed. I have always been in top gear. I have a 48T chainring ordered, should be here about Wednesday. But yes, there is definitely more power laid down, like you Myller I am getting to 400 watts when before I could only get about 350, still spinning out more than I would like but the new chainring should give me plenty of room for improvement. Thumbs up from me :slight_smile:


(Patrick Manon) #52

There are a lot of wrong informations about this trainer everywhere on the net. A recent post by an Elite representative on their forum clear many things up : 

  • P1 / P2 / P3 values have nothing to do with rider weight

  • P1 / P2 / P3 values are different for each individual units and are preset at the factory (and can’t be shared between users).

  • Setting the rider weight is important for the trainer to adjust resistance properly for a given slope but power reading are unaffected by the rider weight.

Most of the time, calibration is not necessary on a new unit but sometimes it is. 

If your power reading are wrong, you have only 2 solutions : 

  • if you have a power meter, do a proper calibration with the elite app

  • if you don’t have a power meter, then you must adjust the p values by feel (not a great solution indeed) 

Read the post on Elite Forum to get it from the horse’s mouth : http://forum.elite-it.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=572


(Alistair Simmons) #53

Is anyone with a power meter and this trainer able to quickly verify if the spreadsheet here: (see A.Yeut’s post above) https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115010869846/comments/360000407952

is accurate for your setup please?  At least if there are a few people of varying weights that can verify the spreadsheet is close to being accurate, then it would be a great help.  I’m confused if rider weight is actually relevant? Elite say it isn’t as rider weight is set in their setup app. Rider weight also in Zwift…  confused again.   Thx in advance!


(Robert Jones) #54

Just to clarify something. When trying to change and then update new P1,P2 and P3 values, it can take numerous attempts to get the settings to take. Don’t give up at the first attempt. I have had it “take” on the fifth attempt. Generally, if you have had a successful update of the values, the “read map” seems to work first time after it has taken the updated P figures. If you go to your log files in “documents” Zwift and then logs you can see the last log. If you also look at the log file just before the updated P values were accepted and compare them you can find the two different sets of P values. Unfortunately, they do not follow each other in the list of numbers.

It certainly does update the map. You can read the files with notepad on windows.

As regards the calibration figures shipped, every set of figures I have seen have been very close to other examples. I don’t think a difference of maybe half a dozen makes a lot of difference when riding. As far as I am concerned, if I can get to within 10% of what it should feel like when riding on the road, I will be more than happy. There are many makers of trainers and each of those has many models. I would put money on there being a significant variation even between models of one maker, let alone with the rest of them. That doesn`t surprise me, they are doing the best they can and convergence with every other trainer out there is just about impossible.


(Carlos Cancio) #55

The update to Zwift made a great difference, now you don’t run out of gears and the resistance seems to be really realistic, almost too hard!  Great update by Zwift, Bluetooth connection does not drop, yesterday I was able to do like 70 KM and was able to keep up with the group on flats and climbs, avatar moved at the same speed of others in the group, that were putting a constant effort.


(Robert Jones) #56

I agree Carlos, I have a couple of spare gears now but before the update I was flat out in top gear all the time in sprints. Top gear was the only gear I ever had.


(Glen Gollrad [VFOX]) #57

Whew! I wish I had the too-easy issue with my QUBO set up on Inside Ride eMotion Rollers in Zwift (using a PC laptop, iPhone Connection App, PowerTap GS hub). No matter how much I fiddle with P settings, rider weight, etc… the resistance is TOO HARD in Zwift, After the Zwift update I almost couldn’t turn the damned pedals! At 78kg and a hefty short duration wattage output this was unusual. I’ll go back to the proverbial drawing board and try varying P1 and P2 values - but in attempts to wildly vary them (P1 = 10/100/400, P2=15/150/500, etc, etc…) I get nominal fluctuations in resistance in the eTrainig App - and similarly modest changes in Zwift - albeit all TOO HARD for my taste. Adjusting the slider in Zwift to middle / upper middle levels of trainer feedback help - I can almost spin out the legs in the SMALL chainring and largest Cog…

Goal: Mild terrain feedback in Zwift. That’s it. Power, Speed, Cadence all from other sources. That’s it.

I’m about to disassemble the unit and either remove one of the two magnets, or see if the magnet / resistance threaded drive shaft (moves the magnets into more or less resistance positions) can be adjusted to keep the magnets from extending too far out (makes more resistance). The unnecessarily long Calibration Tool in My eTraining app is terrible. 30-40 minutes EACH TIME! To heck with that.

I’ll post follow up findings, but really just want an easy hack / fix so that in Zwift I get mild terrain feedback - not so much I can barely move going uphill, and still have to work too hard on flats / descents.


(A Myller @MoodCycling) #58

Glen, yeah Zwift needed to make a slight change to the resistance with Bluetooth connection on the Qubo. Looks like they over did it for sure. I am  butting 200w+ on 48x24-25 (My large cross chainring). That is what i use on flats now. Before I was using 48x12-13. On the road I am avg 200W on 48x16-18. Depends on day/ride. I had to turn the climbing resistance on Zwift down to 25% for it to even be possible for me. What I started doing lately was training sessions that way i can put whatever gear ratio I want and the Watts are still same (training). I will be Beta testing another cycling simulator her soon with the Qubo. We’ll see what happens


(Steve Ricketts (C69)) #59

Glen, we feel ya!  After the updates to Zwift and the Companion app, my wife and I are having a heck of a time producing decent numbers.  As you’ve found, the resistance is VERY high.  The “Flats” are not “too” bad but even a +1% change takes a two gear change or more.  Of course you can use the Trainer Difficulty slider but backing that off takes away the whole purpose of a smart trainer!

Not sure why your eTraining program takes so long.  I do ours with a Windows laptop using ANT+ and it only talks something like 15-20 seconds.  I do find it works easier when you turn the training on before opening the program.

Keep us all posted on your progress!  


(Julian Selmes Buffalo) #60

Glen,
Have you emailed Elite? Sounds very much like a hardware issue. They are good once you contact them!

I used the link A. Yuet quoted above and it backed up my findings. Paired with the Zwift’s more accurate resistance now my Qubo is so much fun to train on. Plenty of gears to really crank up the watts. I always have it set on 100% resistance because I want to train; I’m not there to drag about massaged numbers :wink: