Fence feature to harsch

Yes I see that, that is because you were climbing in front of the Leader then waited at the top but you did not speed up in time to go down at the same pace as the leader.

Where will you ride if there was no fence, you would be with the front group riding away from the leader.

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There is no way to match his speed. Look at the difference in speed while we put the same amount of watts.

And no, I would not be away from the leader since I am a social rider and will be waiting to regroup after the descent.

The point is not to match the same watts, the point is to ride the same pace, so if he is going faster with more watts then you need to increase your watts.

If the leader go faster than you then you need to speed up, if he is slower then you need to slow down.

If you stay with the leader and he goes fast down the hill then you should ask him to wait up, but the leader probably did not wait when you got dropped since you were pushing the pace for the whole ride.

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I am on a small screen iPad so it is very difficult to see how fast the leader goes. It was very suddenly he overtook me on that descent. And as soon there was resistance I increased the watts.

Furthermore, I don’t have a keyboard to type. I just try to enjoy my ride.

I guess the reason why he didn’t wait when I got dropped again was because he himself was behind the pack and probably he didn’t want others to get kicked out of the event nor to be too far behind of the others. But none of this would have happened if the fence was less harsch. I would be happy riding in the blob again like the picture shows after the first lap.

The very reason of the fence is to elimate flyers and to reduce pushing the pace by the front riders. I was neither acting like a flyer nor I was pushing the pace.

…But I am pretty sure why I got dropped…because others were pushing watts like crazy on the descent…

You don’t need a big screen to know how fast the leader goes.

Just ride behind him if the distance between you and him increase then speed up if it decrease then slow down.

image

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Look at this from the leaders perspective, A bunce of riders is pushing the pace, the leader is keeping the set ride pace.

You see the gap in front of the leader this mean the leader has no draft advantage so the speed of the group is going down while the blob in front has draft and they are going faster and faster. this is why the gap just keep growing.

image

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Ofcourse I can understand this. But you can see from my power output that I was not pushing the pace. Please look it also from my point that since I am not a wattage killer I need to be very carefull not to end up in the back of the pack.

During this ride I did everything to make it a social ride, but I found myself being the one allmost kicked out and finally got dropped. That should not be the purpose of the fence.

From your ingame picture and strava flyby it look like you were pushing the pace.

I will say it again the fence is there to keep the front from riding off. The point of the fence is not to ride as close as possible to it.

Then you may need to look for slower group rides.

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I was not close to the fence, nor I was pushing the pace.

But if I would push the pace, why your suggestion to look for slower group rides???
I think you are still missing the point that riders with lower wattage can be easily dropped from the pack in certain situations.

the fence is too blunt an instrument. now Min has been big upping the ghosting feature for race catagory infringments just do the decent thing and impliment it for people going beyond the fence then un ghost them as they drop back. everything is in place except the will from zwift to acknowled/fix this problem.

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If you look at your picture you will see you were close to the fence, the ride leader was never close to you.

Because you said you need to ride in front otherwise you will get dropped. If you pick slower rides you wont get dropped so easy.

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That is how the fence work if you go past the fence for more than 60 seconds you become a ghost to the group.

I was talking about Eric mins new ghosting mechanic for zwift racing. It won’t expell you mid event like the current system it just ensures you have no effect on other riders. Surely that is preferable. Maybe not.

Not that I have ever had a problem with the fence myself and I can see its benefits, I would like to see a solid fence implemented, so that no-one could push the pace or get “booted out” for flying or by glitch or accident.

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The fence is there to keep the social groups together, you have to alter your riding to fit in with whichever group your cycling with. It’s as simple as that. There’s plenty of workouts and training programs and then there’s races which cater to all abilities where you can ride as far down the road as you like. I can empathise with you and plenty of others who maybe get nervous and push ahead to the fence all the time for fear of being dropped at certain points but if you are indeed being dropped quite often then maybe look for a lower w/kg ride or a course that suits you better.

The upshot is that you join a social ride then you abide by that rides particular format and parameters. No point complaining about it ruining your ride etc (I mean this in a nice way but the group ride is not about ‘you’). If you want to do your own thing then go find a race or do some structured training which will in all likelihood give you a better training stimulus anyway and leave you feeling less frustrated.

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You are missing the point!!

I watched other riders doing 3+ watt/kg during a descent in a 2.0-2.5 watt/kg social ride. For that reason I dropped that time and also last week during a social ride.

During a social ride I expect others to be social and look around. Hold your horses when you see the group split, that I do also when I am in the front part of the pack. It seems lots of other riders don’t really care of the social statement. They act like it is funny that someone is being dropped, that someone else is pushing 3+ watt/kg for minutes to get back and the increase the speed again to drop you again.

A social ride is SOCIAL. So act social. The current fence feature helps some but it is my and many more more a too harsch instrument the way it works right now. With a few simple modifications it can be a FAR better feature.

All the group rides I have done with or without the fence have been good fun, but you have to be reasonably focused and concentrating and ready to really push it if you’re close to the back. If you switch off, there is a very real chance of getting dropped from which there is usually no come back.
This could be part of the fun for some, but a total annoyance for others especially if you are hoping for a controlled recovery ride with others.

One thing that has crossed my mind is…
as we all know the w/kg approach is a rough guide, a very rough guide, it should be replaced. To be honest its almost useless as this numbers actual wattage varies so much depending on the weight of the Zwifters in question. I’m sure no one actually uses w/kg to describe their real local (outside) group rides.
so
the actual target power required for a ride could perhaps be more helpful for group rides on Zwift.
If we can stick to them?

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Continuing the discussion from Fence feature to harsch:

If another rider is pushing 3wk on a 2.5 that is also wrong. Just stay slightly behind the group leader. It’s not that hard at all if your in a suitable ride for your ability. And concentrate! Respond to changes in terrain and stay in the draft. I don’t know what your finding so hard about it unless your in completely wrong category ride. And what about races would you not rather do them? You can usually form good groups on the road with similar abilities when racing

Mostly I am dropped during descents or rolling terrain, never during ascents or steep uphill.

Like the ride which I pointed a few weeks ago, I got dropped while I did 70 km/h on Fox Hill but the leader reached a staggering 90 km/h. Nothing to do against that for me.

If riders just relax during descents…don’t push watts at those moments. Hold your horses, and use them on the flats and ascents again.

But I fully agree with the previous posters, set limits in watts. For me example I would like social rides around 160-180 watts. That is sub 2.5 for most riders.

I got dropped while I did 70 km/h on Fox Hill but the leader reached a staggering 90 km/h. Nothing to do against that for me.

This is just something you learn after doing a few group rides. If you are a light rider, make sure you are in the group BEFORE the descent starts. The group will always descend far faster than you can by yourself. Dump it in a large gear at the top of the hill and be prepared to sprint onto people’s wheels at just before the descent.
Descents are hard for group rides to manage well. And there are no instructions for this, so you just find out the hard way on the first couple of rides, then learn where to position yourself.

set limits in watts. For me example I would like social rides around 160-180 watts. That is sub 2.5 for most riders.

So just join a sub 2.5 ride. Again, I’m going to assume you are light (like me), so you’re going to have to assume that you need to be able to hold over the stated pace on the flats and really look for shelter in the groups.
The up side to this is that you should be good on the climbs, so make sure you use this to place near the front of the group ready for the next descent.
I’d also advise saving Aero Helmet and Drafting Van power-ups for the descents.