Drafting still feel unrealistic........


(L Read) #1

Using a computrainer.  Drafting feels unnatural.  I am still having to put out same or often higher Wpkg to stay with the rider in front of me.  


(Jon Iriberri) #2

i agree. With out power the needed acceleration in speed to follow someboy is mouch more higher than in the real one.


(Jeff Hirsch) #3

Totally agree.  Also on a CT and don’t get much of a draft.  It seems drafting doesn’t make it easier but rather makes you go faster, which is not quite the same thing. 

Also when there are multiple people in front of you it sometimes seems to lock on to someone 2m or more ahead of you giving you the close the gap.  Not sure, but it seems like even if someone is right in front of you and you get a close the gap, that you aren’t getting any draft.


(Jon Iriberri) #4

in cp is clear but with out power is moreover.


(Ron Skinner) #5

Jeff, I think that the problem is that when CT users get in the draft the algorithm is set up so you go faster for the same w/kg.  The issue is the same on the road except you get real world feedback that is not present in the virtual world.  What you need to do is the same as on the road, soft pedal a bit to settle in at a slightly lower power output.  It will take time I suspect for them to figure out the math and the smoothing.  Aerodynamics and drafting will never be perfect but with time they may get better.  I agree that sometimes I am in the draft and exceeding the w/kg of the person in front and still not passing… I suspect the math/ physics engine will take time.


(Jeff Hirsch) #6

Just did another ride today and I have to say Drafting is worse than it used to be.  When I did my first 100 in Zwift about 2 months ago I remember drafting for extended periods of time behind folks doing 3.4-3.6 w/kg and only needing to do 2.6 - 2.8. 

Today, behind folks doing 2.8 I had to do 2.6.  Behind folks doing 3.8 I had to do 3.5.

 

On the road (flat road) if I’m on front at 4.2-4.4 w/kg I would be doing approximately 28 mph.  If I go to the back, I only need to do at most 3 w/kg to stay on. 

 

Likewise, when going down hill, I was constantly getting dropped by folks doing less w/kg than myself.  Before I finally threw in the towel, I tried to catch someone going down hill that was at 4.2 w/kg.   I cranked it up to 4.6 and still got dropped badly.  I want whatever they have for my bike because I must have a parachute on or something.  Is it even reasonable to be doing over 4 w/kg going downhill?  Wouldn’t that require like a 90 tooth front chain ring or something?  Out on the road I’d be spinning at over 140 cadence in a 53/11 and not even getting close to that.


(L Read) #7

I have the same experience as you , Jeff. It is ironic that an older VR online riding software that I also own (Netathlon xf) has the drafting dialed in- I rode it this morning and yesterday with riders in Canada, Europe,and US .  The software is a bit old and clunky, but mostly works well. And this software has been around since at least 2004!


(Ron Skinner) #8

I think part of the problem is that Zwift has chosen to write their own interface instead of using the CT API.  That being said this means the Zwift will have a lot of work to reverse engineer what CT already have developed.  I have not tried Tour de Giro but I understand they have the drafting and wind dialed because hey use the original CT code…  CT is going to release the API to third party developers but it will still be a black box which the Zwift team state they do not like.  So because this is beta, I am very tolerant of the learning curve, and that is why we get to ride and give feedback.  I have been beta testing another trainer program as well and he is currently waiting to get the CT API to save him tons of programming.


(L Read) #9

Ron, which other software are you doing the beta for? Veloreality?

I thought the CT api has already be reverse engineered and easily obtainable for a while?


(Ron Skinner) #10

no it is a small trainer program called Max Trainer that has a nice interface for doing power based training, But right now they are holding on CT waiting for the API.


(Darren Linkin (True 2.5)) #11

Drafting feels right to me, but takes practice to do enough to stay in the draft but not too much to keep popping forward. Remember there will be almost zero draft at low speeds going uphill, etc, too. I’ve noticed if you ride at too high a wattage and keep popping forward you can manage to not benefit from the draft, vs. pedaling just enough.