Hey DBR,
Great race today, and loving the league, but I have a query.
I understand the rules that statevthe need to dual rexord for top 5 in each cat and top 50 overall. However, this doesn’t seem to be applied apart from a few riders in the races ive been in. Today, two of our team have been DQd, but there is a finishwe in the top 5 not dual that wasn’t and the top 50 certainly have not either. In fact, only 7 riders show as dual recording from the whole field.
Please could you explain why they have been DQd and others not?
I hope they can be reinstated.They have other effoets that are consistent. Eitherthat, or just DQ all top 50.
Thanks,
John
Hey John,
The top 50 that’s referred to is the Zwiftpower Individual Ranking list (Rankings → Individual). It is not top 50 in each cat in the race.
If a rider has made it to top 50 (page 1), then we expect them to provide a dual recording.
Sadly those rankings are watered down a lot with those rankfest events held by various organizers. So we are actually considering making this top 100.
As for top 5 finishers, then that applies to cat A only as stated.
I am sorry, but I can not reinstate your riders. They both finished in the top 5 and therefore required to provide dual.
Regards,
Jarlund
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Hi Jarlund,
Ive misunderstood the top 50. That makes sense, thank you. However, both riders finished 6th and 7th respectively?
Furhermore, the numbers pushed by our riders were really normal. Its not like they pushed out silly numbers. The race had a small attendance today, with some big riders racing the FRR, so our guys (me included) ranked higher than usual. We wouldn’t normally think to dual record.
This seems a little arbitrary. It’s a shame to be penalised given we showed up as usual and only got penalised because others didn’t show.
Can a little common sense be applied please?
Thanks,
John
They finished 4th and 6th on points.
When 4th place was DQ’d, 6th became 5th, resultung in the DQ.
We can not defer from the rules we have set, no matter the size or quality of the field.
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Hey Jarlund,
Thanks for the reply on my captain.
I get the rules, but I came in 7th in the race, I can’t see that being in the top 5.
If you say I’m 6th, could you tell me how many points I got? I’m quite sure I came in 7th before you DQ’ed me.
Kind regards,
Martijn van der Vis
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This was the best race in the calendar. The one i looked forward to, even though it kills me every week for low positions. I think this is daft. The rules are overriding common sense…and DQ makes the next rider move into 5th and DQ!?
I won’t race this league again.
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From your own rules:
‘Dual recording is mandatory for Top 5 finishers in A category’
They finished 6th and 7th in the race results (it’s a poor stretch too say ‘finishers’ means 'once all the primes are taken into account)
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You say ‘they finished 4th and 6th on points’ but your rules about dual recording for first 5 finishers makes no mention of accumulated points. It’s really poor form to punish riders for badly drafted rules.
Especially seeing as Martijn actually finished 6th on points and only moved up after someone else was DQ.
Looks very much like moving the goalposts and changing rules as you go to exclude people, which is a real shame.
John was raving about this league and I thought about riding, I don’t think I will if this is how it’s run. I’d be recommending others avoid it too
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At best your rule is ambiguous (although finishers strongly suggests ‘across the line’, otherwise you would say ‘top 5 scorers’).
In a case of ambiguity due to your drafting of the rules, the decent thing would be to resolve the ambiguity in favour of the competitors who have relied on it wrongly because of your not being clear.
Also looks horrendous treating that ambiguous rule the other way (meaning top scorers), because you personally benefited from it and moved up places.
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You started a reply. Please share your thoughts.
The rules may seem harsh, but they have been the same for several seasons now.
When someone in the top 5 gets DQ’d, someone else move up. It would have been no different, if someone in top 5 had been without a heart rate monitor or received a DQ for any other violation.
Results are final.
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it’s been a while since i looked at the DBR ruleset or at their race description but i’m pretty sure it’s made very clear there
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Yes, but they were not in the top 5. This is ridiculous.
Let’s leave it there.
I won’t race in this league again.
please describe ‘very clear’
I’ll show what it states:
Dual recording:
Dual recording is mandatory for Top 5 finishers in A category, plus for all in the top 50 on the individual rankings on Zwiftpower, regardless of category.
A public dual recording analysis must be uploaded to Zwiftpower within 3 hours of completing the race.
I’d like to add that I didn’t finish in the top 5, and even with primes I was not within the top 5
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OK, maybe i have it mixed up with FUSION or some other series who also follow the same clause and do state it explicitly, but i really wouldn’t take it so personally. morten is not accusing you of cheating or anything, it’s just a technical DQ. pretty much every racer has been DQ’ed before
You completely ignore the fact that your rules say ‘top 5 finishers’'. If you mean ‘top 5 scorers’ then that is not what the rules say, so it is unfair to DQ people on that basis.
The rules also say nothing about a DQ moving riders up into positions where they need dual recording.
If those are the rules you should make that clear and apply going forwards, but not back.
The series may have run before with the same poorly drafted rules, but how are new riders supposed to know how they have been applied previously?
You are acting like this is a professional league, rather than what it is: an (allegedly) fun Saturday league.
The answer would be obvious to anyone with a shred of common sense: accept your rules are badly written, waive the DQs due to them not being top 5 finishers, and then re write clearer and apply in the future.
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Yeah it’s no big deal, but it’s frustrating to have DQs doled out when riders are within the rules.
It’s worse when the race organiser relies on an ambiguous reading of the rules to maintain a DQ rather than giving riders benefit of the ambiguity.
It’s pretty sad when the race organiser rides the race and benefits from DQing people on dubious grounds.
It’s not how I would run a series, gives DBR a bad name, and discourages people from taking part.
Then again, it’s just a game and plenty of other races.
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Yeah I don’t take it personal as the leader who’s DQ’ing me has personal benefit of the DQ.
I see that you can make mistakes in the rules, but if it’s not clear, you should always act in favour of the riders. And all the points Chris said above on it’s just a fun league and the rules are just poorly written.
It’s actually funny that Morten can’t stand being beaten by a B rider :') Which I find pretty hilarious actually and then bends the rules to get me a DQ. It’s sad but with this organisation I won’t race this league again, because they bend the rules apparently in a way that they like.
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I suppose you have to be thankful that at least 5 riders in cat-A dual recorded, otherwise every A cat rider would all be DQd and moved up one by one…
What an unbelievable way to run a series, I’m sure it’s not great to have people complain about something you have put love and effort into, but you are doing yourself a disservice by running things in this way.
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One word. Rigged.
Finished outside top 5, DQd.
Not cool.
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