[Released December 2022] Critical Power Information in Zwift Profile

Yep in hindsight what we have now with all the confusion that has been going on for months is a lot worse than just giving us ZP cats with Pen enforcement and the number one key point in all of this variable category boundaries.

If the boundaries are always fixed riders will always gravitate to the near the top of the cats whether that be zp or ce. Sure you might catch a few out by CE but for all this confusion I’m not sure it’s really worth the effort.

Hopefully the work on CP feeds into initial ranking otherwise it’s all been a bit of a waste of time.

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How about ZCRaP (Zwift Critical Racing Approximated Power)?

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8 :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy: char

Sorry if I missed it, but has a roadmap with a general timeline for Zwift race ranking been shared?

it was, it was a 5 minute job as the code to stop people entering the wrong pen is already in place as men cant enter ladies only races so all they needed to do is
if ZP = A then allow PenA deny PenB,PenC,PenD
if ZP = B then allow PenA, PenB deny PenC, PenD
if ZP = C then allow PenA, PenB, PenC deny PenD
if ZP = D then allow all

sort of, it should be in the first post of one of the “Competition and AI tech update” threads staff have posted in this subforum. but i wouldn’t expect anything in the immediate future

edit: https://forums.zwift.com/t/competition-ai-tech-update-november-2022-recap

Gee wheez Rich, I wish you would have suggested that 2 years ago!

and miss on out on the fun that is CE?

David - I’ll go back and see if I can find a few, I haven’t seen anything blatant for a while. It has calmed down quite a bit, and our biggest series this time of year doesn’t have categorization.

MTA: Because race organizers don’t have access to the data behind cat enforcement, for anything borderline all I could do was leave it there, it was only a few very blatant cases that were DQ’d

Thanks! Given the note below, I think definitely not in the immediate future.

“* Scoring & Categorization: allow scored results to influence overall ranking progression - In Discovery

You mean May 2020?

EDIT: Not saying ZP is better.

It’s nonsense to suggest that ZP cats with pen enforcement is better than CE. Come on guys.

There may have been much better ways to have developed this, from the start, and with a much more effective outcome, but don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

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I think the issue and source of frustration for folks may be not really whether than ZP with pen enforcement or CE is better, but the optics or perception that a lot of time and energy has been spent on developing CE when it was known all along that that really wouldn’t solve the core problem.

It just seems to bystanders that it would have been better to put resources into the final appropriate solution. Now, as outsiders, maybe we misunderstand how much time was really put into this and it hasn’t been that labor intensive but if it has it’s a little like watching someone trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver, and then continue to try to solve the problem by buying more expensive screwdrivers instead of just getting a hammer.

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There I fixed it.

Yes I agree CE is way better than ZP. I would like if Zwift would enforce CE for all events. Make a clean sweep so people don’t get confused. And remove the Category on the Zwift power website.

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Category Enforcement is great.
Are categories based on CP better than categories based 95% of best 20 min?
I don’t know.
I’m not sure about FTP, zFTP, CP, zZP or W.
Now there’s to be a zWt.

Using critical power lead me to Intervals that has changed the way I approach training.

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This is why I said Zwift only need to show the assigned Category no need for all the confusing data.

At a technical level I quite a agree CE is better than ZP.

But the way it’s been delivered and not enforced on all events we have ended up with a 2 (3 if you want to count wtrl) cat system which has been causing confusion for months. And continues to with these extra metrics so in my view i don’t see it being any better than what ZP with pen enforcement would of been.

I’d like to see Zwift enforce CE on all events including ZRL and for it to be shown on ZP that would bring some real progress if the ranking idea is a long way off.

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The thing that is most frustrating, and I really like Zwift, is the missed opportunities.
Racing stats - zwiftPower
Ride info- Strava
World/route choice - ZwiftPref
Map of worlds- Zwift map
Training info- Intervals.

Why is Zwift letting all these opportunities to improve the experience go ignored?

The graphics settings should be secondary instead of crashing top rigs.

I agree and this is something which took me some time to realize

IMHO the quickest way to improving the Zwift racing experience for all Zwifters is not a total new system, but directly targeting the Zwift riders which are disadvantaged in the current categories (because these riders are not close to the cat limits). Hence the idea of creating the new customized Zwift categories for Mad Monday, using the similar measurements (95% of best 20 minute w/kg) but then setting the limits differently.

Now all we need is permission from Zwift HQ to allow the TFC Mad Monday series to implement pen enforcement. In the past 2 weeks @DavidP has been a great help to explore ways to implement pen enforcement for customized categories and I think we are close to getting there. :+1:

So from my point of view Zwift is doing its best to help Zwift racing improve, regardless of what happened in the past.

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Honestly @Gio_Hoeberigs - I don’t think much of the “½ category” systems - I’m currently sitting as a C, and I did some mad monday races in low B - but I should have been in the top of B when I did them. It’s why I was podium in a good chunk of them. It’s just a bad way to do categories. Results should be better - but we don’t have that yet, and it’s not great for new racers.

It would be better within the power categories if the boundaries moved a bit - either give organizers the ability to set the boundary in w/kg for each cat, or have the official cat boundary move periodically. There’s a very odd statistical anomaly where a very large number of racers are close to the top of the category limit.

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