Category Enforcement Trial - Next Steps [February 2022]

Then it probably shouldn’t have got pushed out to over half the races on the calendar prior to them being ready…

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Is it a bug/feature in Category Enforcement that a rider can be moved to a different category, lower than they originally signed up for?

Had an incident today where a B rider had signed up for a CE race in B category, but when he joined the race he was in the C category. He didn’t notice he was in the wrong category until the race had started, because all riders were in the same pen. In Zwiftpower he’s B, but since he only had 3 rides in last 60 days CE might count him as C. He shouldn’t be automatically moved to C in the race though, if he’s signed up for B?

Rider id is 2605296

That doesn’t sound like a category enforcement bug. All that does is limit the categories that are available.

I noticed this yesterday…when you add more Pens to the existing event everyone already signed up will be in the wrong pen. It happened to me yesterday…after i updated the event and the Pens were sorted i had to re-register to the event and everything is back to normal. I was moved from B to C.

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Looks like we’re going to get some variety with the Zwift Crit races with CE! Will be nice to race a variety of crit courses rather than racing Crit City every. single. time. As much as I love Crit City, it will be nice to have some variety. Different times throughout the day, custom power ups, CE, should be pretty fun… Zwift ZRacing Criterium Races - ZRace Central

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I put those up yesterday, nice spot Oliver :slight_smile:

I’ll have the rest of them up (the 5 routes repeat) for the rest of the month. More news on this soon.

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Is there any reason why this race doesn’t have category enforcement enabled? It’s one I do quite regularly on a Friday lunchtime, and often chock full of our friendly sandbaggers.
ZwiftPower - 3R LaGuardia Loop Reverse Flat Race - 8 Laps (24.5km/15.2mi )216m)ZwiftPower - Login

most of the daily 3r races don’t. personally i recommend starting as an A regardless since they’re mass start. you’ll probably get a better rank if you care about that kind of thing

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Presumably the Zwift equivalent of Sisyphus is being a pace bot repeatedly going up Alpe du Zwift.

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Just did a Zwift Classic race; in Cat B, in my race specifically, the second placer has an FTP of 4.3w/kg @ 355w
And has… MANY wins in Cat A in the past few weeks even on ZP, let alone pages and pages of wins and podiums of Cat As and Bs on ZP.

How or why was this person allowed to sign up for Cat B when Classics is cat enforced and only up to 3.99w/kg?
They literally have an event they did 4 weeks ago with a normalized power of 380w and over 20 minutes; and a sub 15 minute race from 6 days ago that has a normalized power of 420w.

So clearly well over the w/kg limit, and well above VO2 capabilities.

Is there something wrong with cat enforcement on the Classic event?

side note: for anyone misreading my tone, this isn’t a complaint about this particular rider; it’s about the system clearly having a fault here.

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Well he is a ZP Cat B and the majority of his podiums are very short events, so my guess is that because his power curve drops off a cliff after ~20km mark (relatively), he hasn’t triggered the CP threshold, but we’ll never know because Zwift are refusing to publish our CP’s.

Zwift Classic events are in his sweet spot power curve wise so I’d expect him to do well. If the events were at 35-40km distance, I doubt he would even bother entering (he appears to play to his strengths).

BTW, congrats on your improvement since the test events. Solid numbers.

I’m coming along, thanks! Once this heat goes away I think is when things will really help me along, it’s a slow climb in the meantime haha.

It hadn’t even crossed my mind last night, and good catch I didn’t really look at the lengths of events they did, normally just checking for the ones that show 20 minute w/kg; but I hadn’t bothered at looking at their power curve.

I recall seeing something once before about the wattage floors / ceilings for cats, ie: Cat C’s wattage ceiling is in that 200w area; but now I’m failing to find where I saw that, and am curious what the ceiling is for Cat B.

Are you thinking of the general table found on the CE FAQ page?

This thread has only been able to prove to me on multiple accounts I am not only crazy, but blind!

Appreciate it John!

Issue is, that despite having those numbers available, the user does not know what their values are in relation to it

Until Zwift put those numbers on the users profile that table is useless

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Well, that, and most people don’t even know what these labelled things are. I’m curious how conflicts between categories are resolved as well. Eg. what if you VO2 is greater than 50, but your MAP is less than 3.9, and your ftp is 2.6?

And everything just listed as “Watts” is your 20-minute, or your 95% of 20min (aka extrapolated FTP), or if you actually did a Zwift FTP test, whatever that returned value was?

Also have a look at the very first post (and PDF) in this thread:

CE needs transparency, but decent ranking would also help encourage good riders like this one.

I can see this has been mentioned a couple of times, but haven’t seen a reply. Is there an expectation that CE will become the primary/mandatory method of categorization? And is there an expected timeline for roll out? I assume this would also need a revamp on ZP and a bit of publicity for racer awareness / understanding.
Particularly keen for this to be adopted in popular racing such as TTTs and ZRLs. As we all know, top end B/C racing is a mess :smiley:

The awareness and understanding they are working on Competition & AI Tech Update: June 2022 Recap

As for primary source i’m sure that’s correct but not sure if it’s seen it stated anywhere.

ZP probably needs a complete rework which i hope they are working on in the background to get a single results system but in the mean time a quick fix would be just to show CE cat on zp as a good starting point.

ZRL is not going to be using it this season. Shame as it’s just turning into who can sandbag the most does best. Last season or two i’ve raced a lot less and would much prefer a CE or split cat series that others offer.

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Same here. I’ve given up on Zwift racing for the time being and certainly have no intentions of racing ZRL again (not in its current format, at least)

I certainly enjoyed TFC’s split-cat system a lot more (racing in low C), but even here I found it increasingly hard to compete against guys putting out nearly 300W without breaking a sweat.

Haven’t raced for a couple of months and actually feel a lot healthier for it, both physically and mentally (riding IRL has been a Godsend for me).

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