Bother to report or just move on?

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None (most of) of this will be needed if Zwift Auto-Assign Race Categories.

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to quote @Eric_Schlange_ZwftIn

"As news of the sanctions has filtered into the Zwift racing community, one common response has been (as one Zwifter put it), “That’s all good, but I wish Zwift would put this kind of effort into policing community races.” And that’s a fair response, given how rampant sandbagging is in the category D, C, and B races happening every day.

While we should never expect Zwift to put manpower into manually checking power files for everyday community races, they could get rid of many of the sandbagging problems by implementing just a few controls in-game, such as forcing riders to join a particular category based on their historic power numbers. Perhaps opening up the (still beta) anti-sandbagging controls so race organizers can use them in events would also be a good step. Hopefully we’ll see progress here soon!"

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Yes true.
The sad thing is his ‘race team’ is actually his real life company, so he is giving them a bad rep too!
Part of me thinks why do I care?
But he is one of a handful of maybe 5 riders that enter my kind of climbing races that have dodgy profiles. I now have to check they aren’t in them otherwise I think what’s the point?

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Very true… I think he should stop he’s not being truthful

Zwift can only police what is quantitatively measured like power and HR. As long as riders can enter their own height and weight, especially weight, and Zwift puts so much emphasis on W/kg there is little that can be done to remove cheaters. I would think that losing 7kg at one time would be cause for verification and or DQ. Now as Liz says he will just create a new profile with a new weight and continue. Zwift could monitor profiles attached to an account and maybe catch these changes however this takes manpower and I doubt Zwift really cares as much as we do.

Physics put a lot of emphasis on the effect of weight.
But I get what you are saying categories should not be based on w/kg rather on results.

If categories is results based then he can change his weight to win but then he will be upgraded and be at the bottom of the next category.

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This isn’t sandbagging. He is winning in the A cat.

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7kg is possible.
7cm is not!!

Funnily enough that coincided with the videos that showed that height is a major factor in zwift performance.

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What if they MADE a new ACCOUNT? It’s possible that’s for sure.

That too Liz. There are so many ways around it but the more work it takes the less cheating would probably occur.

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Yup! The harder they work the better Zwift will turn out! :ok_hand:

I suggested a fix about 2/3 years ago were a Zwifter goes to their Zwift sanctioned LBS to get weight, height and possibly power verification.
For as small sum it would be good for Zwift, the Zwifter and the LBS.

Perhaps some metadata could be displayed as racers line up to start… height, weight, trainer difficulty, trainer type/model, local time/time zone, etc. (One risk with this is it could lead to shaming of people that really are 58kg/130lbs). Once the race starts, the HUD switches to the standard display.

These are all silly band-aids on top of a broken racing categorization system.

What’s next, are we going to require that all racers go to a Zwift-certified doctor and have a Zwift-certified lawyer sign off on all the measurements? So people can win absolutely nothing?

Fundamentally Zwift needs to make racing somewhat approachable if you’re not winning. Right now, the categorization rules mandate that I must be last, regardless of sandbaggers, because I’m at the very bottom of my w/kg category. And it’s just completely demoralizing.

It would actually be simpler (and have less people complaining) if the races were just completely open, like running.

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What would be the fun in that? “Just” running? I mean for me personally I don’t run at all! All I do is bike and that’s the same with other people too. Ppl like racing and that’s good if they want to cheat then they can cheat but when they win they’ll know they cheated and won’t feel good about it! I know I wouldn’t! Someone came and confessed that he was cheating and did all the ZA road workouts again… people can cheat but it’s not right that’s for sure.

Please no. :crazy_face:

There are may open races and they are super boring and not competitive (like running :slight_smile: )

Having races where you compete against people with similar ability brings out more competition and tactics.

In your case I would argue for a zwift results ranking system, where you get ranked on how well you perform in races. Then Zwift can use that number to assign you to the correct pen.

So lets say your ranking is 239 then big races can have 10 pens and the racers get grouped based on their ranking so then the D pen can be 220 to 240. so you will be in the top. But in a small race there may be only 2 groups and you will be in B 0 to 400 rank then you will be in the meddle. Or something like that.

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My point is that the categorization rules are so arbitrary that it makes racing not fun unless you’re near the top of the category, and at that point if you improve enough to jump a category, all of a sudden racing is sad.

You’re a 3.2 w/kg racer → great, you’re top 10 in every single C race and you feel great
You get a little stronger
You’re a 3.3 w/kg racer → you’re bottom 10 in every single B race

So let’s not try to enforce the existing categorization system, but replace it with something better.

Yes, this would be a million times better.
Slightly secret ranking → sort by ability → equally chop into categories, number based on total people joining

It would also eliminate the pathetically low numbers in many of the races. I’m not going to join my category if it only has two other people in it, but I would if it was a pooled race with 21 people and it got divided into three groups of seven.

I don’t know. Seems to me the post popular rides on Zwift are the “it’s not a race” rides. Stuff like the fondos and El Giro de Rigo etc. Rides that don’t have categories and attract 1,000’s of riders to a single event. Maybe Zwift should make these sorts of rides more regular as they seem to be far more popular than the “real” races.

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I think there is a place for both. Look at the success of the WRTL TTT and the ZRL where 1000’s of racers line up week after week.

I personally have never done a Zwift fondo because I can ride that route any time of day if i’m only interested in how long it takes. But there are may people that like them.

The more options the better.