Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

autocat is back. wtrl made an announcement on their facebook page….maybe this is the new thing zwift itself talked about?!?!?!?!?!?!?

See above

WHAT IS AUTOCAT?

Instead of using the normal power-based categorization that you are used to seeing in Zwift or ZwiftPower, WTRL’s AutoCat system works a little differently. Your historical finishing times for courses based on a difficulty rating of 1-5 within the most recent 30 days. This will be used to pair you with racers that are most similar to you in performance on that same difficulty of course. You are then signed up directly to the corresponding pen/category to ensure you’re racing in a fair and fun event. Z Racing Chase Races will use up to 5 separate categories/pens.

I can’t imagine there will be very robust data for races across multiple course types in only 30 days - let alone the blatant flaws in the calculation method anyway. But as long as Zwift don’t think this is the answer, then hey - let WTRL experiment with different race formats as they wish. Especially for a chase race.

As many have said before, how about letting other race organisers determine how the pens are split as well, by their own logic. If WTRL’s approach is a bit rubbish, I’m sure others can come up with some great formats.

5 Likes

Even the most ambitious of us seldom get more than 20 events in 30 days. And of those only, maybe, a half dozen or so are best efforts, with the rest being for training.

AutoCat might be better than the current situation. But only minally, and only available to organizers that can setup up the additional infrastructure needed to support private events etc.

Preventing people from entering pens based on their zwiftpower category, either the current w/kg version or the hoped-for results-based rank category will both be better, and available easily to all event organizers.

And, since this is all computerized(!) anyway, running the new ranking side by side with the old, and showing people two categories (w/kg and the new ranking), and letting organizers decide which category they want enforced, shouldn’t be too hard.

4 Likes

I’m sorry I’m not going to be able to join you all for the upcoming Zracing Chase Race Series. Truly I am because if I could I wouldn’t be broken right now. And I would probably be decrying the crap scheduled start times or the fact I’m penned with a bunch or racers who can put down 450 watts for 20 minutes.

It will be VERY interesting to see if WTRL improves on the less than stellar AutoCat from the Zwift Classics. Since all I’m riding for the next coupla months is this keyboard, I’ll be following along with great interest. Do well.

1 Like

The WTRL Chase Race page is up now:

Signups will be live from Monday 29th Nov.

Just created a new thread for people’s feedback, so we don’t hijack this one …

1 Like

thanks makes sense, just frustrating that we are still going round in circles in this thread with no updates from Zwift while WTRL get all the access.

Guaranteed there will be more backlash at WTRL until Zwift provide a fair event platform for all organisers, cat enforcement could be done tomorrow.

Why is it not happening?

2 Likes

In the Chase races (other thread to discuss nuances), you are auto added to the pen - no link to the web or companion app to join manually. This is a change from ZRL and other previous events.

Maybe one way to approach racing in the future would be to allow a race organiser to configure their race in a web portal using a list of ever-developing inputs. This would also be part of the Clubs functionality for non-public-calendar events e.g:

Number of pens: select from 1 to 6
Pen division logic: power, w/kg, age, autocat, ranking
Sub division logic: Key power metric (5 min, 20 min etc), Power band per pen, age band per pen, ranking band per pen etc

Every race then gets a single sign up link. This link could be used as part of the new in-game events portal, shared online, etc. The logic is applied based on the rider details Zwift stores.

That’s part one done and dusted - pen enforcement, dynamic race event types, power to the event organisers.

Part two then becomes developing a better ranking algorithm and making this ranking clear and understood in game (pretty easy - just display it in your profile and maybe a colour representation for different levels in-game)

These 2 in combination take racing to the next level in my opinion. Lots of race formats to choose from, no sandbagging, something for everyone, and a progression system that gives everyone something to play for.

Once that is completed, we can look at other race formats supported in-game - points races, elimination races, etc.

Just call me Mr. Roadmap.

Or call me Mr 2028.

6 Likes

I agree but one thing I would prefer to see is signup from the companion app not from every event organizer website.

6 Likes

I wrote:

Naturally it would be via the companion app events list as well.

2 Likes

agreed but what it does show is Zwift right now are willing to put events in the public event calendar that have external signup methods.

This would be great for popular series like TFC Mad Monday and others than lose a lot of visibility due to having to use private links to control sandbaggers if they could remain onthe calendar but use external signup method.

1 Like

which may or may not require ANOTHER account… you already need 3 for the WTRL chase races and other events, no more please!

6 Likes

Not every event can or should be on the public calendar. It should be the same sign up process for both though - just click to join and you’re in. Internal or external.

2 Likes

I think all should be on the public calendar. Except special events like XYZ finals or pro races. If there is any special requirements then Zwift should filter it out.

2 Likes

I’d disagree or the public calendar will be full of poor events. A bit like how it is now where some organisers don’t care or update their events so just repeat week after week and get poor participation.

A more dynamic approach would be better where a club organiser first creates an event and if they can get enough interest they can get added to public calendar maybe 20-30 riders minimum.
And for it to work the opposite way if events continue to get poor numbers remove them to force organisers to promote within their club and externally if they want it to continue.

This would be a far better system than having to try persuade events team to give you an event. Which right now if you are a big club you get the time slots and events far easier.

4 Likes

I see your point @Gordon_Rhino-Racing.

If you look at RGT they do it as you describe and it is hard to find races and it is all over the place.

Maybe more filters in the companion app can fix the calendar. And maybe a rating system for races and rides if races and rides are rated low it fall of the calendar.

You have good points that I agree with.

4 Likes

I think a good balance may be a selection of ‘highlighted’ events in the game and companion app, and a web portal to search all public events, where you can filter by your requirements.

3 Likes

yep the companion app is long overdue an update. Baffles me why something as simple as a text search to find an event is not implemented. It must be very confusing for lots of new Zwifters until they find the likes of Zwifthacks or Zwiftpower events page to get a better filter. I very rarely use companion itself to signup for an event (except clubs has made that slightly easier)

I rating system sounds like an interesting idea. i’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere the idea that riders could provide post ride feedback either in just as a rating or comments. That would be great for organisers if linked into clubs to get direct feedback.

Highlighted events is a good idea but all too often the highlighted events right now go to the big clubs and organisers which is where a rating system could be an interesting approach.

2 Likes

Events calendar is a waste land to what it was a few years ago, is a real shame.

1 Like

Yes agree - hopefully with some of their new appointments they can clean up the calendar a bit and promote some more variety. Ultimately adding the best series to the game and app is in Zwift’s interest, and rewards the best race organisers. (although at the moment creating anything unique is pretty tricky).

1 Like