Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

Yes I agree something like that would be great and indeed is probably necessary if they really mean “extensible”.

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Unlike the Zwift Classics? That seemed to be YAC week after week. Well except for the death march constituted by two laps of Baloney.

Yup. Interestingly the conversation in this thread over the last 12 months has changed/focussed my views on what the ideal solution would be (and the priorities). Maybe I should put another one together.


I believe that would be most welcome. The one posted on ZI seemed pretty comprehensive so we’d like read V2.0…


Looks like they are still using their dumb “time on the course” metric which suggests they didn’t learn much from the classics….sigh…


And this is surprising, why? If they didn’t listen how would they learn anything?


That’s not true.

They learned that it was working perfectly, apparently.


As long as it stays a WTRL project and Zwift don’t get any ideas…


The games I was referring to have no pay to win or levelling up that improves performance - think fortnite. Levels do nothing but give you cosmetics.

Without matchmaking a game like fortnite becomes unattractive to the majority who just get dropped into games with much better players.

Categories are just markers of where an athlete’s performance is on a scale. They are fairly arbitary and as i’ve stated far too broad in definition. All I am saying is that without a more granular system, people will continue to “manage” their category to the detriment of other users who will leave the platform.

Player retention has to be a major focus. Indeed you probably need to find ways to even keep the sandbaggers interested too.

I tried to sign up and is a 404 anyway.


Zackly so. Probably go live on the 23rd…

LOL. I was hoping they might have worked something out themselves. Previously in relation to the summer classics they had also talked about using shorter-term power measures which would be sensible, but thinking back to some of the extraordinary decisions made in that series, perhaps time on course is the most likely explanation for them. Bizarre that anyone could think that was a relevant metric to use.

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Agreed. I would rather do away with categories all together. Think in terms of pens instead, that can be different from race to race.

The progression system (also used for matchmaking if that comes further down the line) is a rankings system.

I like the idea of entering a race, no idea of what pen you are in, and riders are sorted a minute or so before the banner drops.


Without doubt . that must be how it is supported to work …

We are getting more information now on the calculation in place.
I cant remember the course categorisation thing being shared before .

I think this is too difficult and whatever the system is, it will allocate pen on sign-up. I don’t think that’s really a problem, the key is having a credible ranking system. With that in place, pretty much any approach will be good enough. It’s not like any other sport would claim to have the One True Ranking system in place, they all have their own quirks and limitations but none of them (IME) have zwift’s particular handicaps.


I am not adverse to that being an option available for any event of course ( we share the vision I think that the more different types of events that can be supported the better) . However must admit that my preference is to know what pen to enter , who will be in that pen with me (Entry list ) , and most importantly that the parameters that put me in the pen are clear , shared and verifiable by me in full and at (and before ) the point of entry.


I agree I need to know what pen and parameters pit me there before I enter or atleast what parameters will be used.

That is how I will determine what races I will enter.

Frankly I want a goal to work towards currently my goal is to be a A. If it is ranking then I want to move up.

There is a place for fun pickup races where they split all the racers in 4 equal groups so you never know if you are top or bottom.


Being open and verifiable is an important point IMO. There’s plenty of data loss and errors on zp and without knowing the intended logic it would be impossible to challenge or trust the decisions.


Certainly too difficult for Zwift in the foreseeable. Plenty of other games manage it it though. It’s not difficult ‘technically’.

Personally, I don’t need to know who is in the pen before the race. I would like to know the pen split criteria / rules. I also am not that fussed about matchmaking anymore as there are too many other things that need to be done first and considering how simple those things are in comparison yet have not been delivered, matchmaking seems like pie in the sky.

Looks like the series got pushed back a week. Starting Wednesday 1st December 2021