Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

I know you can do this but my suggestion is 1000x easier. I can barely read without my reading glasses (don’t wear them when racing) so trying to scroll through a list on my laptop to find names is difficult and takes me away from the actual race. Being able to instantly identify the out-of-cat flyers just by looking at the “riders nearby” would be effortless. Besides, seems like Zwift live results is very hit or miss from what I can tell. It doesn’t even work half the time.

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“Stoked” is a massive understatement in this case. Ecstatic? Incandescent? Stoked x1000? It would be such a huge change I’m not sure I’d know what to do with my self…

If you’ve ever had the opportunity to ride a C or D race when there is category enforcement you’ll know what a global change it is in the experience. Picture doing three laps of Sand & Sequoias in the front pack with 50 of your peers for the entire event. When I was at the pointy end of the C category, this only happened a coupla times and it was such great fun. I cannot emphasize how great the difference would be if this was the case in all races.

I’ve actually had the opportunity to virtually speak with a genuine sandbagger. He literally did not care that his presence in a lower cat race was fouling up the event for the majority of the riders. It was all about how he could be at the front of the race and creating selection with five or ten of his ilk. My hands get sweaty thinking about it…

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Yep. Exactly so.

Been mentioned a few times that they could use the virtual pinned numbers that have been implemented on some of the pro races. Would be very easy to see at a glance.

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Some context in regards to sandbagging as It’s ?hilarious?..:

I Did tonight’s Olympic Chase Race in Cat C.

Cat D 1st - ZwiftPower has them as minimum Cat B.
Cat D 2nd - Appears to be a child so fair enough - well done.
Cat D 3rd - Not registered with ZwiftPower but ZwiftPower has them as minimum of Cat C as they have raced a lot even though they are not registered.

Cat C 1st - ZwiftPower metrics look bugged. Down as minimum Cat A but something is buggy. Seems to have a history of entering the wrong Cat with several UPGs in their history.
Cat C 2nd - Actually down as minimum Cat C in ZwiftPower - Huzzah! This one is correct!
Cat C 3rd - Not registered with ZwiftPower but ZwiftPower has them as minimum of Cat B.

Cat B 1st - ZwiftPower has them as minimum Cat A.
Cat B 2nd - Actually down as minimum Cat B in ZwiftPower - Huzzah! This one is correct!
Cat B 3rd - Actually down as minimum Cat B in ZwiftPower - Huzzah! This one is correct!

Cat A is Cat A…

So… in my sample of 1 anecdote where a significant proportion of the ‘winners’ appear to be riding down a Cat is this meant to be fun for those that are trying to race properly? (I am not anywhere close to being podium worthy by the way and I know this was a chase race but the sooner a ‘minimum viable product’ of ‘enforcing category entry’ happens the better in my opinion.

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If only this could have been predicted.

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Zackly…

Yup it’s a sandbagger fiesta… Same experience. Notwithstanding the fact that it’s basically a chase race for B and C groups with D and A just spectators.

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Thank @xflintx for the strong gif game. We’re still on this and are working on our near term steps. You’ll here back from us zoon.

Love all of the conversations and ideas here. Thanks for the rich discussion.

Mark

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Interesting C race this…

This the race: Zwift Power - Login

You know, just an official Zwift sanctioned Olympic virtual series event - nothing to see here… The C looks to be bad, the D is even worse

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image

I guess the order of categories is determined by the first rider to cross the line in each category.

I’d expect them to be A, B, C, D for filters regardless of where the riders within the groups actually finished.

Not sure that’s the prominent issue I’d take away from that race… but each to their own…

Meh, the other problems are well known. It’s just noise for people to keep banging on about it now.

I’m just gonna keep banging on about it until we see something tangibly change.

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Based on precedent (Save without exit - five years) you may be banging on about it for a long time.

Although to be fair it is probably three years already - with the half-decade agile sprints that seems to be their software development lifecycle we may be getting close.

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Wow - you actually had it better than me as your race on ZwiftPower was at least set up with category enforcement. Mine didn’t have that so no one was filtered and the ‘winner of all cats’ crossed the finish line 3 minutes after the race started! No Category Enforcement on Olympic Chase Race and Bugged Winner

Late to the party but, tying in with what some have suggested already:

1 - enforce ZwiftPower categories (not just w/kg but absolute power qualifiers) on entry
2 - use power profiling to identify sandbaggers/cruisers who use apps to keep their average power within category and avoid DQs
3 - allow organiser to set the pens to any values they wish, not the bog-standard A-D.
4 - And enforce those values, rather than someone else’s idea that Pen C is always 2.5-3.2w/kg
5 - in the longer term, move to an ELO-style system while keeping 1-4 above

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6 posts were merged into an existing topic: THIS could solve all of Zwifts Problems