Riders ensuring that their 20 minute power doesn’t exceed the cat limits. There are plenty of these.
Riders doing their best each race, but due to the nature of the system, they are not exceeding the limits even though they are more than capable of exceeding them.
I was cat B for way longer than I should have been, because I am a pretty efficient drafter. It took 2 races featuring the Innsbruck climb for me to exceed the limits (probably the only opportunity for a flat out 20 minute effort for a cat B aside from an iTT).
We came 4th in EMEA A1 ZRL TTT on Tuesday, but my power only just (by 0.002) exceeded B cat limits. I haven’t exceeded B cat limits in any other ZRL cat A race, despite finishing in the top 3rd. There are very few opportunities where 20 minute power is truly tested, especially 3 times in 90 days.
Zwift say go in to the category for your FTP. That is not the same as the category according to ZP.
You can ride like this in all races.
I don’t understand why people keep saying Sandbaggers and cruisers prevent them from racing.
I know the arguments and you may repeat if you wish but I maintain: cruisers and Sandbaggers affect your ability to win but not race.
Treat every race as a TDZ ride.
Person B in your example, when giving the opportunity to progress will take it, whether that be for personal gain, performance improvement or just kudos for becoming a Cat above rider.
They are not actively trying to avoid promotion, they have just not had the opportunity (though the world doesn’t resolve around flat races or TTT/ZRL, they could have done a number of different races in 90 days that would challenge their power profile)
Person A, is actively managing their output to remain in Category they can try to game.
Your right, but the bigger picture is, more people who race in the correct category means there are more individual battles all the way down through the race rankings and you get more people racing at the bottom end of cats.
It changes the entire race landscape. My 2ps worth to that
Is it still a race if you can’t do any racing tactics? Lets say your strong point is solo breakaways, but there are people managing their power and sandbagging they will have the power to shutdown any breakaway especially in the last bit of the race.
There will always be extrinsic barriers that stop you from progressing, other riders beating you, course profile etc… Cruisers create their own intrinsic barrier to progress by holding themselves back - That’s a system failure.
Spot on, in the race below (my only win this year) I completed a solo breakaway from halfway, if there had been sandbaggers and cruisers (cat D had 5 of them) there is no way I would of won. I was lucky though as the guy who finished second was clearly not well as had lost 15kg in a week so it was a bit unfair I kept putting the pressure on the flats and downhills.
It’s not even possible for me to do mine in a B race without intentionally just riding away. I am reasonably sure that anyone with a 5 min more than maybe 1.3wkg higher than their 20 min probably has an underreported 20 min on their zp profile though, for one reason or another. Me included
Bologna TT is a very good indicator of peoples power - They know they can get it done under 20mins and the nature of the course makes it very difficult to back out and not put power down.
If you are holding 4.5 for 17mins and still claiming to be a B, good indication you are not a B.
Though there are so few courses that require a flat out 20min effort from the start - One of the volcano climb loops is basically flat out for 10 mins then into the climb so it will tend to be a 15-18min solid effort to stay with the front.
Innsbruck after party and the like people can manage their effort on the climb, when its flat out from the start they have to go with it to stay with the front group.
I said there are two types of riders - those deliberately staying below cat limits and those that can’t, or are unlikely to, exceed the limits due to the nature of the system. I then gave clear examples of where that personally held me in the lower cat longer than it should, and that even as a mid-to-higher cat A I am still rarely breaking the cat B limits.
I didnt disagree about how it came about, I disagreed that both are a product of a failed system with regard to cruisers.
You were not a cruiser and the general point wasnt about genuine racers, you were not holding yourself back. I even referenced course profile in my later post about extrinsic factors that hold genuine people back…
I wish someone could just explain to me why it would take so long to activate pen enforcement. Just turn it on now in a few races and tweak/iterate as necessary.
To paraphrase Flint, they cant implement helpful features without the right buy in & sign off by product managers as they are now to big a company plus they want to test this and get it right, as opposed to the monthly updates that undertake very little testing and is hit & miss on the improved experience scale.
Yep, Flint just the conduit for communication. As for the Product Managers, don;t envy their jobs, managing a product that is so broken, not something I’d be proud of
