Anti sandbagging and other areas that need development and communication

TFC and SZR are already doing this for their Monday (TFC) and Wednesday (SZR) series.

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@Mark_Cote

This thread and topic is in serious need of an update given the big news about removing rider data visibility. Reducing transparancy threatens to make community racing on Zwift absolutely pointless without genuine and significant efforts to combat cheating on the platform.

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and I would add IMMEDIATE since those changes mentioned today go in effect next week I believe.

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What is this about reducing transparency?
Where can we read more about it?

I just found it.
Unbelievable.

For the benefit of others who may be wondering: Community Welfare and Anti-Harassment Update [April 2021]

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Essentially, the right to cheat is more important than you want for transparency.

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I’m hoping the explosion regarding the latest announcement makes Zwift realise what a problem they have with communication at the moment, and why they really need to change it up.

You have to take with one hand and feed with the other.

If that announcement was made (and it’s the right change to make IMO) alongside some comms on how they are developing a rankings based racing system and tools for race organisers (or Zwift themselves) to DQ cheaters, the reaction would have been completely different.

PLEEAASSEEE @Eric @Mark_Cote take this on board. The whole racing community feels like you are working against them and not with them at the moment and for many it’s the final straw already.

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Are you able to explain why its so complex?

Two guys built a results-based ranking a system from scratch in their spare time in under two months for another platform yet Zwift with its numerous employees and millions in funding have done zip in 12 months.

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Please just provide some crumb of comfort that you are looking into rolling out category enforcement or a rankings system?
I have taken to scrolling through random C and D races and it’s farcical. You are hard pressed to find a winner (sometimes even a top 10) that is within the category limits.

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“We are talking about these issues at Zwift every single day”

“Can’t we just float this thing and get the hell out of here”

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I joined Zwift in 2016 and really enjoy the platform. Races during Covid-19 have turned into a joke, but I was excited to see Zwift, start anti-sandbagging races. I am a D rider and don’t see the point, if the Top 5 finishers are rewarded for riding out of category? People cheat in CAT D rides, because they know the ride won’t go 20 minutes and trigger the 20 min ftp. We need to get rid of baggers, make the race 8 laps not 6.

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Totally agree about the UI customisation. (The last thing I need to see in real time is my heart rate!)
The remarkable thing about Zwift is actually how few new features and QOL improvements they have provided since launch. Obviously they have opened up new areas, but there really seems to be so much low hanging fruit that they could tackle. Maybe they have a heap of spaghetti code that they need to avoid changing.

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Considering the furore of posts this week and decision making processes it’s a shame there has been no updates in here, even more so when you review past comments by zwift staff.

Though it’s very on brand for zwift, promise a lot, deliver nothing…

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Yup, it’s been 7 weeks since I started this thread. 7 weeks and nothing!

It must be possible to provide some sort of update on the items listed, and racing as a whole?

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To be fair, the Anti-Sandbagging as implemented (cone of shame) doesn’t work, often triggers on small riders with low power (tiny human rule), and some people have been learning how to game it perfectly for a year?

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Hey @Mark_Cote, @xflintx and @shooj. Is there going to be any update provided on some (any?) of the points raised in this thread, particularly anti sandbagging functionality or a rankings system for racing?

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So my 11 year old son received the sandbag cone 100m from the line of an 8 lap Downtown dolphin today…

Want to know how to piss off and turn away kids ? Implement silly rules that see their hard work turfed. It can’t be that hard to write a script that sees kids get a pass on these events ??? He was barely putting out 125W

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I sort of agree with you … but the solution is pretty much like the solution outside of zwift.

Children should have seperate events and not race with Adults .

Countless examples could be given as to why is it just a good approach . You example being one of them , younger riders can deliver quite amazing improvement spurts as they are still of course developing physically in that context .

In pure practical terms simply put , children push edge cases far too easily with numbers that could be easily interpreted and indeed translated incorrect by lets face it the simplistic performance algorythm currently used , no matter how you far you think we have come . Still a long way to go there .
.

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I see your point and I also “kind of” agree.

Can you imagine a better way to piss off a 40 year old rider attempting to lose weight and fighting to the top of Cat D, C or B Crit race and have some 11 year old kid, who could never keep up in real life, pull ahead because of an algorithm glitch?
Also, the 40 year old rider pays for his account monthly and the 11 year old gets a free account.

This area needs to be improved.

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