Yes it does that
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I think you are right Paul.
I measure success in a different way.
Winning a race with 3 people, one not in zwift power who actually won and the other getting a virtual puncture should not be seen as a win.
none of those listed are group rides, and certainly none are banded.
Zwift power only shows a fraction of those in a race. Perhaps it’s different the higher up you go?
Yes it does but there is no excuse for not knowing about Zwiftpower really, you only need a few friends also using Zwift and you find out about it the day you sign up with Zwift.
Zwiftpower typically needs you to be wearing a heartrate monitor, results are not ideal but good enough until Zwift gets serious.
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@Derek_Russell3 I’m sorry your race in Herd Beginner Race wasn’t fully what you were hoping for. As @Paul_Southworth said we do have one more pen open but the problem we run into is how many riders in a pen for a given race. Typically our D pen (ZRS 0-125) has anywhere from 2-12 racers and as far as I know HBR still supports the lowest ZRS bandwidth (we follow how many racers are in the pens and identified 0-125 so we we were likely to have participants in pen D who were a maximum of about 1.9 w/kg).
As has been stated Category D is huge (2.6 w/kg) and as one who started racing at 1.6 w/kg I fully understand. I do have a few friendly suggestions…
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Race and challenge yourself first and foremost. You’ll improve.
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Have fun, don’t worry about your finish position, learn. Btw, I do an Introduction to Racing on Zwift group ride on Wednesdays. It’s open to everyone. I post it on Zwift Beginner Racing and go over things I’ve learned. There’s also a document on ZBRs Facebook page that can help you.
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It was my fault Nathan. Zwift support suggested I give it a try, but my power was just over 125. I joined the lowest group possible.
I expect I will back below 125 shortly, where I belong.
Thank you for providing this event.
G’Day Derek. What’s your weight? I had a go on the weekend (came last) but generally had a decent race. The lady who won in my category only put out around 120W.
I had about a 1min lead over everyone by the time we got to the first little uphill as you head away from Tempus. I got passed prettymuch at the top of that first rise. Was back in the lead heading down then immediatly got passed on the second larger climb.
Something that I found frustrating about the race was that it ended at the top of the climb. Ireckon that’s a bit silly… I would have thought that you’d run that race right to completion of the route given it was basically DH all the way to the end of the route from the top of the major climb - you flog yourself to get to the top then don’t get to reap the (virtual) DH at the end.
Zwift Power Race ID: 5464032
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That’s amazing power output mate. Top effort 
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It can often be that way in real life as well. Seen numerous stages that finished at the top of a big climb eg Alpe d’Huez or Col du Galibier (then a neutral descent from that) or Col d’Agnel (again a non-timed descent after that). Mind you they had heaps of downhill sections as well, but being real life the big folks aren’t always the fastest downhill.
Just keep working at it and, well, it doesn’t get easier, you just get faster! 
Eventually.
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I love those finishes and seek them out since it’s the only format I do reasonably well in. Not like finish on the Alpe but some medium climb, the “after party” routes, those are the best. Save all your energy for the last push and see who is tired.
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Cheers, I had another race today for Stage 3 of the Zwift Games on Cobbled Crown. Felt pretty good and I reckon I had my best, if not close to bes 5min output at 273W. I was averaging around 250W for 75% of the race but then dies in the ■■■■ going up the three climbs at the back end - on the inside of one of the bends it spiked to over 25%!!!
RE: Races finishing at the top of Alpe or other mad climbs, I reckon that fair enough, but when it’s like below.. I feel cheated - done all the hard work lets just finish the race (and give me a chance to catch back up to the leaders)
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On those climb finishes, those are the places where I never feel cheated because I am super motivated to do my best performance, much more likely to PR the climb on Hell of the North than on Gentil 8 for example. On Hell of the North you just have to give it 100% at the right spot on the climb, but on Gentil 8 you’re better off staying with whoever’s in the lead and not going alone to the finish. If you get to a flat finish with the group, execution matters but it’s also a roll of the dice. On the climb finish that is much less likely unless you try something foolish.
Honestly I don’t think that’s the feel we’re going for with Herd Beginner Racing - we see fewer people not finishing the race when the categories are separate, even with smaller visible fields - people are “in the hunt for a podium” much longer, and not dropped from the group - the “big guns” of E Cat can hang on to the higher categories longer and just disappear in the draft when they might not be able to ride away nearly as easily on their own. I’d rather have a 3-person race that all 3 get to the last few km together rather than a 12 person race where the lead two from E category stay with most of the D cat riders and the last guy just ends up on their own.
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To improve competitiveness in Herd Beginner Races (HBR) we just did a reassessment on our pens.
First, we’ve gone over to 5 pens. We did this so we could shrink the bandwidths a little more and hopefully make finish times a little tighter and competitive. My suggestion, relax, breathe, smile, and have fun. Race and challenge yourself first, improvement will happen.
As for the pens and the bandwidths and the why
ZRS 0-115 is Pen E. When we looked at racer in HBR we see very few with ZRS less than 50. To frighten things up here we decreased our lowest bandwidth from 125 to 115 after looking at participants.
ZRS 115-185 is Pen D. For the top end we looked at some of the racers in ZRLs Developmental D races and assessed that 185 was about the upper end of racers that would continue in ZRL Developmental D.
ZRS 185-265 is Pen C. Focus here became where the heart of ZRLs Cat D racers were.
ZRS 265-345 is Pen B. This is about where upper Cat D racers are bordering on Cat C and able to race the lower to middle C racers.
ZRS 345-430 is pen A. Here’s the heart of C and possible the odd Cat B.
There maybe further modifications depending on a number of inputs. Two things I can say is that right now HBR has the tightest bandwidths on Zwift using ZRS for racing and to support racer development. While we want all races and pens to be competitive we also like to promote as many people as possible in the pens so you have others to race against.
We’re planning to continue to use a rotation where racers can experience races on flatter, undulating, slight climbs, a common Zwift race venue, and a common end-of-month route so you can assess how you’re doing.
If you have feedback on HBR I’m more than willing to hear it, especially if it provides feedback that can improve the development of racers.
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You assume lower Cat C when there is actually lower Cat B and Cat C riders (not lower) in that pen, I like the idea of the Herd Beginners races but in practice with the small turn outs you can end up beating 4 riders and getting 20 odd points, is there no way of changing this by using ZRS to split pens but don’t award points for the win?
Is HBR for beginners?
Would an experience cut off, maybe 50 or 100 races keep it better for beginners?
Any system can be gamed and yes, occasionally people above might be will be in an HBR pen. What we typically see is people who haven’t been on Zwift or haven’t raced in a bit fit into a pen and “blow” that race up. Happens no matter the system (gaming or simply I haven’t been there in a long time). That’s one reason we used mass start for a little bit but determined to detrimental to those who were truly trying to race at their level.
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