4 Dimensional Power - Full Frontal Test

(Tamás Szkaliczki) #1

Dear Zwift Developer Team!

I would like to ask you, to add “Full Frontal” test to the basic workouts.

If you did not heard if it, the idea was published on Sufferfest, and the workout is in their app too. But it took only around 1 hour for me to “port” it to zwift with the cadence “goals”, and event texts, so not a big deal.

The only “option” missing is showing the average powers during the 4 test sessions, which as I got informed cannot be done with editing custom workouts. (Even with editing the ZWO file.) So I ask you, to add this workout to the basic ones, with this option, because it can matters much to someone (like myself) during the tests.

Even if the thing, that “tailoring” every workout for individuals with this 4DP profile has not been added yet, it would be a great start, that on the “menu” screen, there would be a 4DP profile, and then the results from the test.

And after a while, when the other requirements would be completed to allow riders to choose, to use FTP or 4DP based workouts, that would be added too.

(I have to add, that I have never used Sufferfest, but this 4DP idea got me thinking and I think this will be the way to train in the near future.)




(V ROOM) #2

Have to admit I was wrong about Sufferfest, I thought maybe their days were numbered as Zwift was getting fully operational.


Seems they’ve managed to raise the bar however and upset some of the old guard in coaching in the process (have a look at comment sections on certain bike sites to see the beautiful mountains of salt).

What we have now is a bit of a mess though.

We have Zwift, with the best tech and massively under-utilised potential, which to this day is missing proper training plans like TrainerRoad.

We have TrainerRoad, with the most affordable/accessible training plans for any rider getting serious - but dull as dishwater and zero ambition to add any layer of immersion to the platform.

We have Sufferfest, the trendiest, most energy packed workout experience that was the original disrupter. Who themselves got disrupted by Zwift, but are staging a comeback with accessible tailored smart coaching and their fully tech’d up app.

These are three leaders in what they do. There are of course others that do a lot of stuff well, but these three are unique in nailing it.

What we need now is these three merged into one, and we have the ultimate interactive cycling/training experience. Gamified solo and group workouts in a variety of online worlds, with tailored fully fleshed out training plans to suit a variety of time commitments based on all aspects of power (not just FTP).

I would love to see these three businesses get together and make the magic happen. At the moment I’m jumping between subs. Subbed to Zwift for a couple of months there, and am already back with TR for my sweet spot base training. Will later jump on Sufferfest for this 4D stuff to see how the plans go and see what sort of results I’m getting with that. Really looking forward to trying SUF again soon. Definitely seeing massive holes when it comes to post-FTP intervals when basing workouts on FTP alone. I was making custom stuff to fill in the gaps last summer.

Two days left on my Zwift sub and I’d have loved to stay around, but I’ve become goal oriented recently which overrides everything. Can’t wait to see the state of Zwift when I’m back in 6 to 8 months. Hopefully it’s a bit more like my vision of all the above mixed in!



(Ron Skinner) #3

the idea is not at all new, it was presented in the Book Training with power by Coggan and Allen, as the power profile that indicates the type of rider you are and your strengths and weaknesses.  The interesting thing that Sufferfest has done is develop an algorithm to help you choose the best workouts that will assist you in developing based upon your strength and weakness profile.  So it is not new it just is being applied in a new way to a training software in a novel way.  The other thing is other than their own in house work there is no real proof that it works and that the test protocol is effective in determining your profile.  Having said that, as with anything the proof is in the pudding and if one gets measurable improvement over time then what else matters.  So most people have gotten significant improvements over time with the use of FTP, that is well documented, Hunter Allen has for a fair length of time used the idea of using your power profile to determine where you should focus your training to get the best effect, so Sufferfest has just taken it and made it user friendly.  I would like to see Zwift up their game on training plans but maybe that is not their prime focus and if that is the case then you have to choose, does a stimulating virtual riding environment trump a different way to apply training impulse in a video of road races?  both look pretty good to me, I like the flexibility of Zwift, virtually unlimited courses to ride, group interactions, etc etc etc…

(Samuel Zuercher) #4

I am trying today‘s Plan, as they sync professional workut plans to zwift. I like thisone so far